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Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#401

Post by PaulHoule »

solidsnack9000 wrote: post #298
elcritch wrote: post #70

Personally I think that defensive technology like this is fantastic. It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones. Israeli civilians have faced bombardment by tens of thousands of rockets from Gaza for the last 20 years [1]. Outside the Middle East there's many areas threatened by combatants with similar cheap missiles. P…

The economics have been favorable to attackers for a while. Maybe precision systems like this can help to shift things in favor of the defenders.

Lasers need a straight path through clean air. Israel is a favorable location because Tel Aviv gets 200 or so sunny days a year, but if there are clouds this won’t work or will have to fire at the last moment.

As for drones, they’ll fly lower to the ground to reduce the line of sight.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#403

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

elcritch wrote: post #386
Amir_A wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is...? Jews were living peacefully in Palestine long before the establishment of a judeo-supremacist apartheid state, to the point you had entire refugee boats of Ashkenazis seeking safe harbor from the holocaust, who ironically became the cornerstone founding population of the Jewish state after the Nakba in 1948 killed and forcefully expelled hundreds of thousands of people (it's the ultimate cautionary t…

Zionist settlement started in the 1870’s on legally purchased land. Most of that land was uninhabited. Tel Aviv was founded on literal sand dunes in 1908 and is Israel’s most populated area. Jaffa was the closest Arab city which is still predominately Arab. Northern Israel become majority Jewish without military force under the Ottomans and then British empires. However even then there were regular pogroms and killin…

Perhaps not, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who was vaguely favourable towards Israel before the invasion, and now, having watched what's been done in the name of "safety" with horror, considers the country a rogue far-right state run by corrupt criminals guilty of a very long list of crimes, just one of which was the creation of one of the most organised sex trafficking and sex abuse networks in recent history.

Quite the record.

But I don't see this as a specifically Jewish thing. There is clearly a cabal of extremely wealthy people who consider themselves above the law. The cabal includes factions of different ethnicities, and they seem to enjoy - and profit from - promoting nationalism and race hate and getting the peasants to wage war on each other.

We seem to be in one of the regular cycles where these crazies get out of control.

I'm sure it's all very entertaining. But no doubt modern PR and astroturfing techniques will make sure no one's opinion becomes so unfavourable that personal accountability becomes a real risk for these criminals.

Even so. It's really not a very satisfactory situation.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#404

Post by mikeyouse »

choult wrote: post #359
testing43523 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except when the bombardment comes from space. Golden Dome is planning large constellations of lasers like this in constant orbit, as well as hypersonic warheads able to target any spot on Earth within 90 seconds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Dome_(missile_defense_s... It's explicitly an offensive technology (and of course Musk has been involved)

It's Trump's version of Reagan's Star Wars - it's all bluster that we will not see any result of, and it will be quietly shelved by future governments.

Only after billions (trillions?) of dollars have been doled out to favored allies of the President though.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#405

Post by FunnyUsername »

cogman10 wrote: post #343
FunnyUsername wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that output power of the laser? If it's input power, it doesn't really seem that high. Some US homes could draw 100kW if charging multiple EVs etc.

> Some US homes could draw 100kW if charging multiple EVs No. Most US homes are on 200 or 100A service. 200A tops out at 48kW You won't find many home chargers that are more than 60A.

As the sibling comment notes, these days 400a residential service is available as an option in many places.

One home actually consuming close to 400a is pretty rare, but it's possible mainly in gas-free builds, if using things like electric tankless water heaters (a bit niche) in addition to multiple EV chargers, a range, dryer, etc.

Maybe a better way to convey that 100kW is “small” is to point out that industrial sites all around us, such as smaller datacenters, are well into the MW range.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#407

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

causal wrote: post #80
cogman10 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I see this as ultimately a wash. In Russia/Ukraine, drones have proven to be a very real threat to deal with (arguably also in Iraq). What this means is wealthy nations will snatch up or recreate this and deploy it. That will stop smaller resistance forces from either defending or attacking. Depending on the nation in question this could both good or bad. Just like drones, guns, or tanks. Effectively, this puts…

Which, IMO, is better than having swarms of cheap bombs flying around. Taken to the extreme, I also prefer the current status quo vs. everyone having a nuclear-tipped ICBM, and would welcome a countermeasure if cheap ICBMs became a thing.

Some nuclear weapons are light enough to be delivered by drone.

Drones could also be equipped with facial recognition and conventional weapons to support targeted removal of "undesirables."

Very much a "Be careful what you wish for" tech.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#408

Post by snickerbockers »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #365
snickerbockers wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not change any power dynamics. The only time the iron dome has ever come close to failing on a systematic level was when they ran out of interceptors during their own unprovoked war against iran.

Imagine a scenario where israel doesn't need bomb shelters or sirens since rockets are destroyed almost instantly. Right now even if iron dome works it still greatly disrupts the day to day life in israel (not to mention the pure financial burden of interception) Now I doubt the technology is anywhere close to that now, but in 10-20 years alongside other technological advancements? Who knows.

Their constant warmongering is why they constantly are being bombarded with rockets.

That you're primarily concerned with disruption to life and financial burden rather than casualties and infrastructure indicates that iron dome is already capable of preventing these rockets from being a serious threat.

The absolute asymmetry of every war they fight is proof enough that the only real solution is a commitment to negotiations and diplomacy. Palestine has under constant siege since long before I was born and they still haven't given up despite having the worst kdr of the last 80 years. They don't care about the laser dome, they will keep fighting.

Also I have doubts about this laser boondoggle, its far more susceptible to atmospheric disturbance and flack than a surface-to-air missile and it relies upon having access to a stable source of electricity during an air raid.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#409

Post by nathanlied »

snickerbockers wrote: post #362
mupuff1234 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technical solutions can lead to diplomatic solutions as it changes the power dynamics. Will it solve the "root cause"? Probably not, but that's because there's no single "root cause", but it still might lead to some diplomatic resolution.

This does not change any power dynamics. The only time the iron dome has ever come close to failing on a systematic level was when they ran out of interceptors during their own unprovoked war against iran.

When Iran directly, materially, and openly, supports groups or organizations that have as an overt stated goal to destroy Israel, and actively work towards it (both with indiscriminate attacks against civilians, and building infrastructure for future invasions/attacks), I don't think the war is necessarily 'unprovoked'.

We may say that it was unproductive, badly conducted, or a lot of other things, but saying it was unprovoked is like saying that Ukraine has no reasons to attack Iran and/or Belarus. They do have those reasons, because both of those countries directly and materially support their attackers. It just might not be productive to do so (and indeed, Ukraine seems to believe it isn't).

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#410

Post by LightBug1 »

judah wrote: post #106
xg15 wrote: post #86

Someone should give people in Gaza or the West Bank or Lebanon the same tech.

Gaza (Hamas), the West Bank (Fatah), and Lebanon (Hezbollah) are the reason this technology is needed in the first place: violent religious fundamentalists firing cheap rockets at Jewish cities because of religious hatred. Over 16,000 rocket attacks on Israel last year alone. Thanks to the Iron Dome technology, nearly 90% of such attacks were intercepted, saving thousands of lives. This new Iron Beam technology is mo…

From where I'm seated, Israel needs to be de-Nazified - let alone given Iron Dome technology. Perhaps then they wouldn't need the technology to begin with.
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