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Homeschooling hits record numbers

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Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#401

Post by pyuser583 »

jfreds wrote: post #386
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

I was homeschooled until high school. I couldn’t agree with you more. The value that the socialization the public school offers is underestimated. Learning activities with other homeschooled kids is ok but not enough. A tight-knit neighborhood of friends is huge, but not enough. You need to develop a thick skin and a sense of self-assurance. I have no counterfactual of course, but I think much of the social anxiety I…

I was horribly bullied in high school. It was really bad.

The worst part was being ostracized. The school had anti-bullying policies, but they don’t force anyone to be your friend.

Strangely, I was elected to lots of student government office, and held leadership in lots of clubs.

Maybe my memory is just off, but I don’t think so.

I think I was really good connecting with the grownups who ran the school, so they made sure I got leadership positions.

I was always much better at being the kid in class the teacher liked - same with principals, etc.

Probably one of the reasons the other kids didn’t like me - but that went over my head.

I think it’s really easy to overestimate how important the socialization in public schools is. We go to so many movies where the plot is based on the dynamics of public high school, we assume it’s normal.

We see so much of terrible stuff downplaid like it doesn’t matter. Just rewatched Back to the Future which laughingly brushes off every kind of violence as long as it’s done at the prom.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#402

Post by ohsoSad »

OneLeggedCat wrote: post #344
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

In the rural areas that I've lived in, it's mostly about a strong desire to supplant science and history with religious ideas and principles.

[dead]

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#403

Post by zaphar »

mmcclure wrote: post #371
rahimnathwani wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying it's a lot. See my other comment here for my reasoning: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46008035

I think your reasoning is flawed, but fine...if the goal is to try and have the cheapest possible one room school house. That $200k gets eaten up pretty quick by things like security, janitorial, building maintenance, support staff like principals, librarians, guidance counselors etc etc. If you’re meaning to include total cost for the full time employees (the teachers) in the list, then the salaries are a lot less a…

If the religious institution does a better job at roughly the same cost-point then it's probably not the money that is making the difference.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#404

Post by bgnn »

hereme888 wrote: post #234

The biggest misunderstanding I hear year-over-year is homeschoolers are "not exposed to the real world". Isolation exists for some, but my extensive interaction with homeschoolers is they are immersed in healthy communities, hand-picked by parents to keep away problem children. Who would plant a flower next to a sick or hostile one? Parents of healthy children should give 0 s*ts of societal/political pressure against…

What you define here is isolation from the real world. There seems to be a misunderstanding of your understanding of misunderstanding.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#405

Post by dooglius »

BJones12 wrote: post #105
mcphage wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It says something about a system dedicated to teaching children when parents think they can do as well or better. 6% of American think they can beat a grizzly bear in a fight. That says absolutely nothing about the bear, and says a lot about how misinformed people are.

An acquaintance of mine fought (got mauled by) a grizzly bear a month ago. He went to the ICU (since released), but the bear got shot and died. It was a pyrric victory, but he did win the fight.

I think the implication of the question is that one doesn't have a firearm

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#406

Post by brettcvz »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #158
triceratops wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$28k doesn't go as far in San Francisco because of the insane cost of housing and everything else.

$28k per student is more than enough to run a school in San Francisco. Let's assume we cannot take advantage of the economies of scale available to SFUSD, and we're running a school with just one classroom: 22 7th graders. That would cost SFUSD $616k ($28k x 22). What would it cost us? Teacher (all-in cost): $150k Teaching assistant: $100k Rent for commercial space in SF (~1,200 sq ft): $60k Curriculum, books, suppli…

The big thing you’re missing is special education, and to a lesser extent English Language Learners. School districts are obligated to teach every student, some of whom cost the district dramatically more than they receive from the state.

Your admin costs are also low - you need to account for each teacher being coached and managed, running school operations and front desk, facilities management, finance, IT, etc.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#407

Post by bena »

ecshafer wrote: post #244
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #147

I can't say my public school experience was great, I was bullied and didn't really click with the popular kids, but being around a cross section of actual American kids in my age group (my school district mixed middle class with lower class neighborhoods) helped me shape my worldview and learn to deal with people who didn't look or talk like me. I frequently saw fights, so I learned that you just stay away and watch…

My kids are not school age yet, and I am not sure on if I will home school or not. But I do think its possible to get good socialization exposure while homeschooling. There is the neighborhood kids, you have sports and clubs kids can join, religious groups. Plus not all homeschooling is just a student staying at home all day. Some people "homeschooling" I know are groups of parents getting together to educate their c…

It sounds like school with extra steps.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#408

Post by rahimnathwani »

mmcclure wrote: post #371
rahimnathwani wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying it's a lot. See my other comment here for my reasoning: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46008035

I think your reasoning is flawed, but fine...if the goal is to try and have the cheapest possible one room school house. That $200k gets eaten up pretty quick by things like security, janitorial, building maintenance, support staff like principals, librarians, guidance counselors etc etc. If you’re meaning to include total cost for the full time employees (the teachers) in the list, then the salaries are a lot less a…

  "I think your reasoning is flawed, but fine...if the goal is to try and have the cheapest possible one room school house."
I was generous in my estimate for each of the line items. I chose a one room school house as an example because it's easy to grok, and anything larger would be cheaper due to economies of scale.

  "I've got multiple kids, so I'll admit I think about schools here a lot."
Although I have only one child (in 4th grade), I think about schools a lot, too.

  "The absolute cheapest private schools I've seen in San Francisco are subsidized by religious institutions. The tuition for those schools per child is roughly $28k."
This $28k number is false. Most parochial schools charge about $12k. Here is a breakdown by grade level of the number of parochial schools in SF that serve that grade level, and the median tuition among those schools for that grade:

          #    Median sticker price
  Pre-K   7    $16,610
   K     29    $11,530
   1     29    $11,530
   2     29    $11,175
   3     29    $11,175
   4     29    $11,175
   5     29    $11,175
   6     30    $11,519
   7     30    $11,519
   8     30    $11,519
   9      4    $31,725
  10      4    $31,725
  11      4    $31,725
  12      4    $31,725

  "Non religious private schools usually start in the $40k range and can easily get into the $50s and well beyond."
This 'usually start in the $40k range' is also false. For each of the grades K-5, 33-39% of non-parochial schools in SF charge less than $40k. For each of the grades 6-8, 30% of non-parochial schools in SF charge less than $40k.

  "because clearly private institutions aren't able to do it any cheaper"
Non-parochial private schools don't typically price based on cost. The schools that have high demand (due to parents and student population) can charge more. So they don't need to manage their costs tightly. And they can spend lots of money on marketing.

Moreover, not all students pay sticker price. So looking at the sticker prices (which I've listed above) may give an inflated view of total income.

  "because their goal is a good education"
Their goal is happy customers (parents). Different schools achieve this in different ways. Some parents choose a school not based on the expected quality of education but based on the expected networking opportunities for themselves and for their child.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#409

Post by brettcvz »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #158
triceratops wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$28k doesn't go as far in San Francisco because of the insane cost of housing and everything else.

$28k per student is more than enough to run a school in San Francisco. Let's assume we cannot take advantage of the economies of scale available to SFUSD, and we're running a school with just one classroom: 22 7th graders. That would cost SFUSD $616k ($28k x 22). What would it cost us? Teacher (all-in cost): $150k Teaching assistant: $100k Rent for commercial space in SF (~1,200 sq ft): $60k Curriculum, books, suppli…

Also this is an area where first principles analysis is likely to lead you astray - I’d recommend starting with SFUSD’s public budget to understand what their cost structure is.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#410

Post by Matticus_Rex »

ghssds wrote: post #314
usefulcat wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly tradeoffs, but it's not all negative. In my experience, what it boils down to is that home-schooled kids tend to have more experience with adults and less experience dealing with a wide variety of other kids, particularly assholes. When I was a kid in public school, there was no shortage of assholes and I definitely would have preferred to not have to deal with them. OTOH, I don't doubt that there…

What happens to asshole kids? Do they become regular adults or asshole adults? Do they become soldiers or prisonners never to be seen again by normies? Do they even reach adulthood? Are they even a stable group or were we all asshole kids to some other kids?

Looking back at the assholes of my youth, they run the gamut. Some seem like lovely adults, and are very successful. Some are just like they were and are very successful. Some others crashed out completely. The more brash, upfront assholes and the clever assholes seem to have done better than the sneering, malicious assholes.

And we were (almost) all assholes sometimes, but there's definitely a class of kids who were assholes most of the time.

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