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Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

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Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#401

Post by wtallis »

rieogoigr wrote: post #279
mystifyingpoi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do share the sentiment, I firmly believe that for opensource, no one should require the author to distribute their software, or even ask them to provide os-specific installation methods. They wrote it for free, use it or don't. They provide a handy install script - don't like it? sure, grab the source and build it yourself. Oops, you don't know what the software does? Gotta read every line of it, right? Maybe…

Part of writing software involves writing a way to deploy that software to a computer. Piping a web URL to a bash interpreter is not good enough. if that's the best installer you can do the rest of your code is probably trash.

It's not the best installer they can come up with. It's just the most OS/distro-agnostic one-step installer they can come up with.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#402

Post by pnt12 »

zahlman wrote: post #95
aerhardt wrote: post #26

I'm surprised by how much I prefer prepending "uv" to everything instead of activating environments - which is still naturally an option if that's what floats your boat. I also like how you can manage Python versions very easily with it. Everything feels very "batteries-included" and yet local to the project. I still haven't used it long enough to tell whether it avoids the inevitable bi-yearly "debug a Python enviro…

> how much I prefer prepending "uv" to everything instead of activating environments You can also prepend the path to the virtual environment's bin/ (or Scripts/ on Windows). Literally all that "activating an environment" does is to manipulate a few environment variables. Generally, it puts the aforementioned directory on the path, sets $VIRTUAL_ENV to the venv root, configures the prompt (on my system that means mod…

If you have multiple python applications with different versions, it's nice to use the same version as deployed.

At least major and minor, patch is rarely needed for python.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#403

Post by adastra22 »

embe42 wrote: post #88
dekhn wrote: post #58

I hadn't paid any attention to rust before uv, but since starting to use uv, I've switched a lot of my performance-sensitive code dev to rust (with interfaces to python). These sorts of improvements really do improve my quality of life significantly. My hope is that conda goes away completely. I run an ML cluster and we have multi-gigabyte conda directories and researchers who can't reproduce anything because just to…

You might be interested in pixi, which is roughly to conda as uv is to pip (also written in Rust, it reuses the uv solver for PyPI packages)

I wish the Python ecosystem would just switch to Rust. Things are nice over here… please port your packages to crates.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#404

Post by luckydata »

caconym_ wrote: post #227
hardwaregeek wrote: post #149

I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing

There is nothing I dread more within the general context of software development, broadly , than trying to run other people's Python projects. Nothing. It's shocking that it has been so bad for so long.

The python community was in profound denial for a very long time.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#406

Post by 9dev »

zahlman wrote: post #114
verdverm wrote: post #11

I'd put type annotations and GIL removal above UV without a second thought. UV is still young and I hit some of those growing pains. While it is very nice, I'm not going to put it up there with sliced bread, it's just another package manager among many

For that matter, IMX much of what people praise uv for is simply stuff that pip (and venv) can now do that it couldn't back when they gave up on pip. Which in turn has become possible because of several ecosystem standards (defined across many PEPs) and increasing awareness and adoption of those standards. The "install things that have complex non-Python dependencies using pip" story is much better than several years…

The things you list may be a reason for some, but in all discussions I’ve had and read about on uv, the reason is that it behaves as a package manger should. It can just install dependencies from an automatically generated lockfile. It can update outdated minor versions. It can tell me about outdated versions of my dependencies. It can reproduce a build on another machine. The lock file can be put into version control. A coworker can run a single command to install everything. It abstracts the stupidity that is virtual environments away so much you don’t even have to touch them anymore. And also, it’s fast.

Wake me up when pip can do any of that.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#407

Post by warbaker »

dekhn wrote: post #58

I hadn't paid any attention to rust before uv, but since starting to use uv, I've switched a lot of my performance-sensitive code dev to rust (with interfaces to python). These sorts of improvements really do improve my quality of life significantly. My hope is that conda goes away completely. I run an ML cluster and we have multi-gigabyte conda directories and researchers who can't reproduce anything because just to…

Have you figured out a good way to manage CUDA dependencies with uv?

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#408

Post by 9dev »

jampekka wrote: post #22
verdverm wrote: post #11

I'd put type annotations and GIL removal above UV without a second thought. UV is still young and I hit some of those growing pains. While it is very nice, I'm not going to put it up there with sliced bread, it's just another package manager among many

Type annotations were introduced in 2008 and even type hints over decade ago in Sept 2015.

And yet you still cannot write even moderately complex type expressions without severe pain.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#409

Post by pnt12 »

zahlman wrote: post #114
verdverm wrote: post #11

I'd put type annotations and GIL removal above UV without a second thought. UV is still young and I hit some of those growing pains. While it is very nice, I'm not going to put it up there with sliced bread, it's just another package manager among many

For that matter, IMX much of what people praise uv for is simply stuff that pip (and venv) can now do that it couldn't back when they gave up on pip. Which in turn has become possible because of several ecosystem standards (defined across many PEPs) and increasing awareness and adoption of those standards. The "install things that have complex non-Python dependencies using pip" story is much better than several years…

Things uv does better by pip by default: - really hard to install a package globally by accident (pip: forgetting to activate venv) - really easy to distinguish de and main dependencies (pip: create different files for different groups and set up their relationship) - distinguish direct dependencies from indirect dependencies, making it easy to find when a package is not needed anymore (pip: I bet most devs are either not tracking sub dependencies or mixing all together with pip freeze) - easily use different python versions for different projects (pip: not really)

With uv it just works. With pip, technically you can make it work, and I bet you'll screw something up along the way.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#410

Post by pansa2 »

ModernMech wrote: post #266

Honestly though it's a pretty rough indictment of Python that the best thing to happen in a decade is that people started writing Python tools in Rust. Not even a little Rust, uv is 98% Rust. I mean, they just released 3.14 and that was supposed to be a pretty big deal.

I sometimes wonder if many core Python people don’t actually like the language that much. That’s why (a) they’re constantly reinventing it, and (b) they celebrate rewrites from Python into other languages. Long before Rust, it was considered a good thing when a standard library module was rewritten in C.

Compare this to the Go community, who celebrate rewrites from other languages into Go. They rewrote their compiler in Go even though that made it worse (slower) than the original C version, because they enjoy using their own language and recognise the benefits of dogfooding.

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