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Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

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Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#401

Post by blueblueue »

MaKey wrote: post #348
walthamstow wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.

Germany's nuclear power plants were shut down by the governments before him. What do you think he should have done differently?

Well most of them were, but not all. Notably the last three nuclear power plants in Germany were shutdown on 15. April 2023, while the last coalition was in power. At that time there was a big discussion whether the shutdown could be postponed due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine as a measure to curb rising electricity costs in Germany, but ultimately it was decided to go through with the shutdown. It was a largely symbolic move, but carried a lot of emotional weight since it put last nail in the coffin for nuclear energy in Germany. Hence people now blaming the Ampel government (and Habeck in particular) even though it wasn’t their decision to shut down power plants in the first place (with people of the party who made the decision openly criticizing them as well). Just to add a bit of context as German…

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#402

Post by Archelaos »

walthamstow wrote: post #339
grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a bad legacy for Robert Habeck (along with the wind reforms), the leader we needed but didn't deserve [1][2]. Interestingly he's recently dropped out of politics and taken a teaching role at UC Berkeley. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxwVR5JF8Ok 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxnnVPO9GFU

I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.

Nuclear technology is a dead end. Renewables and saving energy is the future. Nuclear and fossil are in the same boat. They are both more risky and have huge hidden costs that the general public and future generations will have to bear. The only good reason to go nuclear these days is if you want the bomb, like Iran.

Interestingly, it is the same people who supported fossil in the past who are still promoting nuclear today. Those who have always warned against fossil fuels are usually the ones who recommend a complete switch to renewable energies. That should give one pause for thought.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#404

Post by jacquesm »

jacquesm wrote: post #298
przemub wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Germany made an assumption that their „partner”, which already was starting wars, would at least keep them far enough from their home turf. It backfired spectacularly and we can blame German government for that. Not much to disagree about generating energy at home though.

The 'handel durch wandel' policy was always predicated on the fact that economic pressure would be a strong tool to force russia to abandon its policy of expansion. It did not work. I don't blame the politicians so much for trying as I do for not realizing way earlier that it clearly wasn't working. The revolving door to high positions in the russian oil industry should have been forbidden to them and obviously they…

Hah, that was a sloppy typo, of course I meant 'wandel durch handel'... serves me right for posting before my first tea.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#405

Post by Tepix »

pyrale wrote: post #267

Possibly one of the worst possible investment choices From a collective point of view when it comes to electricity. One has to question how this choice came to make sense to the german public.

Can you explain why it is a bad investment? These 800W of solar pay for themselves within 3 years usually.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#406

Post by Tepix »

Decentralisation is the way to go for energy. Instead of having huge powerplants and fat power lines having a large percentage of the needed energy produced locally is ideal.

Nowadays, having some solar and a battery is very affordable and means you don't need power from the grid perhaps 80% of the time. And with batteries soon getting a lot cheaper ( https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/catl-sodium-ion-battery-packs/ ) and photovoltaics continuing their price trajectory, soon most alternatives will be unattractive, in particular nuclear.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#407

Post by morsch »

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #338
morsch wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't utility scale operators use bulk purchases of the exact same panels, in a more optimal installation (south facing, unshaded etc) to achieve similar or better payback periods? Utility scale operators added about 17 GW (peak) solar in 2024, so about 20x as much. https://strom-report.com/photovoltaik/

Exactly! Wind expansion has been going great as-well. I guess the more fundamental question is why these expansions haven't led to savings for energy consumers and why the economics of these micro-systems are so attractive.

Wind expansion isn't that great actually.

https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Branchen-Unternehmen/Energ...

https://www.wind-energie.de/fileadmin/redaktion/dokumente/pu...

Looking at who's responsible for policy now, I don't see things improving. Happy to be proven wrong though.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#408

Post by locallost »

cjpearson wrote: post #283
jillesvangurp wrote: post #246

Germany did one simple thing (uncharacteristically) which is removing all the bureaucracy here. Just go ahead and do it. It's fine. Cost in the article is cited at 550 euro. I just browsed amazon.de and you can buy complete plug and play kits here in Germany for as little as 239 euro. Most kits are priced between 300-350 euro. I did not see a many kits over 500. I pay about 70 euro per month for electricity. If it sa…

A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. The ROI doesn't look as attractive in France, the US or Norway.

Electricity costs 24c per kwh in France and I just checked and can get it for 23c. So it's not true any more. Once you factor in that one is financed by the state and the other is not, it was likely never true. Germany's expensive electricity is a myth.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#409

Post by [deleted] »

mschuster91 wrote: post #308
cjpearson wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. The ROI doesn't look as attractive in France, the US or Norway.

> A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. Part of that is because our method of pricing is different than it is in the rest of the world. It doesn't matter if you got a 3x50A or 3x200A three phase service, only during construction (because a 3x200A uplink will obviously be a decent bit pricier), the monthly fee…

[deleted]

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#410

Post by ManBeardPc »

melasadra wrote: post #19

Some people laugh at the 800W output. However, in Indonesia, roughly half of the 300 million people live in homes with an electricity capacity of 900W or less. Wish these kind of panels were available at that price here. We have pretty much 12 hours of sunlight every single day but household solar panel is discouraged by the state owned utilities.

The awesome part is you can circumvent the 800W. First you can legally install 2000W solar panels, making 800W output much more likely. The 800W is only how much you can feed back into the grid. Second you can install one or more batteries and feed devices from them, further increasing the usable energy.
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