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Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

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Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#401

We should really be moving towards a world of Multi-Party Relays rather than Single-Party VPN operators: https://www.privacyguides.org/articles/2024/11/17/where-are-... With Multi-Party Relays you no longer have a trust a single entity not being malicious or compromised. Disclaimer: I run obscura.net, which does exactly this with Mullvad (our partner) as the Exit Hop.

Hypothetically, could tor switch to using QUIC?

You could probably implement a pluggable transport for it?

Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#402

We should really be moving towards a world of Multi-Party Relays rather than Single-Party VPN operators: https://www.privacyguides.org/articles/2024/11/17/where-are-... With Multi-Party Relays you no longer have a trust a single entity not being malicious or compromised. Disclaimer: I run obscura.net, which does exactly this with Mullvad (our partner) as the Exit Hop.

Does obscura work in China? Doe you have a free tier option for me to test?

We've had many reports that it works. In fact, one of our users told us he took an hour video call over Obscura in China and things worked smoothly!

Unfortunately, because we don't identify users we cannot offer a free tier (since that would allow anyone to use it freely indefinitely).

However, you can always just top-up for 1 month to see how it works for you! Would love to hear your experience.

Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#403

We should really be moving towards a world of Multi-Party Relays rather than Single-Party VPN operators: https://www.privacyguides.org/articles/2024/11/17/where-are-... With Multi-Party Relays you no longer have a trust a single entity not being malicious or compromised. Disclaimer: I run obscura.net, which does exactly this with Mullvad (our partner) as the Exit Hop.

Hey Carl! This is the first I'm hearing of Obscura. After doing a deep dive into your product, it looks to be a very fascinating privacy tool. However, I'm concerned with your operating under US jurisdiction, as detailed by others here: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/20059-obscura-vpn-and-mullv... While I understand potentially not wanting to incorporate in the EU (with Chat Control on the horizon) nor Switzerland…

> should Chat Control not pass

Unfortunately in the world we live in no single jurisdiction is good enough anymore, laws can always change and Chat Control can be re-proposed over and over again.

Luckily, an MPR like Obscura with hops across different jurisdictions (Obscura in US, and Mullvad in EU) give you a much better scenario than just being in one jurisdiction.

> it would be great if you prioritized accepting Monero as payment

Definitely prioritized, one of our engineers is working on it right now.

> Also, how much control do we have over the features Mullvad offers (e.g. DAITA, quantum resistance, DNS filters, IPv6, integration with Mullvad Browser)?

We're limited by the Partner API that Mullvad offers right now, but we'll be looking into many of these soon. For example, we're implementing DNS filtering as we speak!

Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and the IPs you connect from, which tend to correlate with where you live, work, and so on.

You connect to hotel WIFI from home and work?

I plead the fifth.

Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting access to geolocked data I use VPNs when I'm trying to ferret out the scope of an outage. I have VPN servers on local ISP which moves me around different routing. I use a commercial service to move me further out and to other countries.

So you are doing a manual version of what uptime monitors do.

Sort of. I suppose the difference is that I don't need to know in advance where the fault is. ex: An upstream, 3rd party service provider appears offline.

Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Obviously a VPN provider can also do this, but you might hope they're less likely to." So you have identified some marginal privacy issue, and have identified that a VPN doesn't solve it, but rather that it moves the risk to a third party actor you subjectively feel is better. Well I feel that, subjectively, introducing a third party generally decreases security. I believe that not all privacy and security considera…

Using a VPN means you have to trust one company instead of every wifi you connect to, and also makes that an entity that's an expert at privacy instead of working off a half-forgotten router in the back. How is any of this "medicine becoming the poison" or "schizophrenic"?

No, you have to trust the one company, as well as everyone you were trusting before. You are still using the router, and now you are also trusting the VPN provider, as well as the nodes in between the VPN provider and your original destination.

Also, you are just switching up the "unprotected stretch" between your local wifi, and, say, Google's servers, whereas now that "unprotected stretch" lies between the VPN provider servers in Latvia or British Virgin Islands or Panama, or whatever dubious jurisdiction, and, say, Google. Sure, you added a layer of protection against the random hacker sitting in your Starbucks, but you have added many more vectors.

It becomes the poison because the solution you are introducing brings more issues. And it's schizophrenic because the issue to begin with, was minuscule (a hacker stepping into MacDonalds, breaking the network encryption and then also the application encryption.

Maybe if this were 2010 and websites still used HTTP, or you are using a local email client without TLS configured. But it's 2025, everything has HTTPs and you are using an HTTPs email client.

VPNs to protect corporate networks is sensible. Consumer VPNs are a different thing entirely and they do not provide increased security at best, decrease security at worst, and usually cater to schizoid threat models, where the threat actor is the state, rather than more realistic threat scenarios.

Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You're devoting a lot of emotional energy You're on the Internet. How are you surprised that someone is repeatedly responding in a thread about a very obscure topic, especially when people are posting conspiracy theories? It's interesting to have these discussions. But it is funny that people's conspiratorial thinking now makes me a part of the conspiracy merely for pointing out easily verifiable facts. >What is you…

How is thinking that a company might be doing PR work in a hacker news tread a conspiracy theory?

That's not the conspiracy theory. The conspiracy theory is painting every single commenter as part of said company/PR agency.

Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How were they able to convince anyone that that matters?

People seem to use VPNs to avoid IP based issues, like Netflix or ip bans/associations, not sure anyone would use it for actual privacy -- at best its obsfucation.

Isn't Netflix pretty good at detecting VPNs at this point?

Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#409
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically put the OP in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ), which is why it got re-upped ( https://hnrankings.info/45469376/ ). Rather an odd way to suppress discussion, no?

We do see your comments, you know? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45476243 etc etc etc etc. As you yourself put it there, you are happy to have moderation abuse pointed out but when I do, you just ban me. Such a wasted potential and time to move on.

We don't ban people for criticizing moderation. It's common, though, for people to make grand claims about being banned for that reason, when in fact we banned them for breaking the site guidelines or otherwise abusing the site.

Since your account isn't banned, you must be talking about a different account. Why not link to it so readers can make up their own minds?

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Who owns Express VPN, Nord, Surfshark? VPN relationships explained (2024)

#410
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically put the OP in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ), which is why it got re-upped ( https://hnrankings.info/45469376/ ). Rather an odd way to suppress discussion, no?

The post is not about Israel but the comment is about Israel. Comments and posts about Israel are typically flagged to death very quickly.

That comment is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45496427 (same subthread as this). Anyone can look and see that it's a counterexample.

Similarly: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

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