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Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

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Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#401

Post by concerned_user »

ifwinterco wrote: post #382
majkinetor wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered how come that some online merchants where I record the card do not ask for auth or 2 factor and some other does. For example, I have recorded my card info in a webapp that I use to pay the bills, and it never asks for anything, which is good, as I have many bills to pay, and I wouldn't want spam of 2FAs. Can you provide some technical terminology on this behavior or links, since you seem to be in th…

Amazon as well seems to never do proper auth (at least here in the UK). When using an existing card where the delivery address matches the billing address, card transactions go through instantly

There is no rule that there has to be a single payment per authorization, if you read for example mastercard API https://in.gateway.mastercard.com/api/documentation/integrat... it says you can partially capture, you can extend authorization. So for all you know when you buy at amazon it just updates the authorization and charges you later but keeps authorization going and amazon might just check if they have auth token for your card and if they do system allows you to continue and to you it seems instant.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#402

Post by Jolter »

noduerme wrote: post #318
renhanxue wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a cash register and handling cash costs money too, doesn't it? It's just a cost of doing business.

No, it really doesn't, besides the fixed investment of buying a cash register. The idea of being forced to hand over a percentage of all my earnings to private company is abominable. I pay taxes to the elected government, not to some bank. It's why I only accept checks, ACH transfers or cash as payment, and it saves me 3% of my income a year over taking credit cards.

I’m pretty sure there are fees involved with running a cash register, aren’t there? At least in Sweden, the machine has to be certified, registers with the tax authority and then inspected for re-certification regularly.

Regarding cash, does your bank not charge a fee for depositing cash?

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#403

Post by Kwpolska »

serial_dev wrote: post #309
john01dav wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, most of my flying experience is US domestic. While I expected differences, I didn't expect this one

Most EU flights I’ve been on offer Internet to travelers for a fee. Even if they don’t offer it to travelers, it doesn’t mean they themselves do not have Internet connection… I’m sure most of the time, they have access to the internet and paying by card is not more complicated than paying in any other store.

On one of my recent Ryanair flights, the transaction reached my bank about 30 minutes after landing. On another, it took two days.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#404

Post by lxgr »

0xWTF wrote: post #74

There's a term I saw all over someone's Google calendar schedule, pre-pandemic "DNS without asking". Now I realize it means "Do not schedule without asking" but my mind thought "Domain Name Service without asking" ... how in the hell would you do that? I guess this is similar: how do you make trustworthy decisions that seem to inherently depend on the network, in the absence of a network? Before the internet, we had…

We know exactly how to do these things digitally. Many European countries have had stored-value payment schemes in the 90s. Japan still does today.

It's a completely solved problem, but it's a more complex (and as such more expensive) solution than just assuming ubiquitous connectivity and a backend that never goes down, which is how we got to where we are.

> Is this motivated by a need to prepare for war?

Preparing for cyberattacks seems like a prudent move, no matter the adversaries' motivation. But yes, the context here is pretty obvious in Europe.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#405

Post by KomoD »

seanalltogether wrote: post #88
Etheryte wrote: post #5

Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…

How do kids get pocket money in Sweden? I can't imagine grandparents handing over prepaid debit cards to 8 years old to go buy candy at the neighborhood store?

They just have their own bank account and card, or if they're a bit younger, cash is still somewhat commonly used

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#406

Post by Findecanor »

catears wrote: post #343
Etheryte wrote: post #5

Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…

To add some more context to your comment. One of the big attacks was in 2021 with the Kaseya ransomware attack that caused one of the larger grocers (coop) to essentially be unable to operate. Made national news as they had to give away product for free in some places. source in swedish: https://www.aftonbladet.se/minekonomi/a/aPrJWL/hackergruppen... And yes, we use cash so seldom that most people cannot from memory…

> And yes, we use cash so seldom that most people cannot from memory recall what the bills/coins look like!

It didn't help that the Riskbank replaced all bills and coins during a relatively short time period, and did it badly. People used up/deposited their old and didn't get new.

The new coins and bills have unnecessary denominations and bad design that made cash bothersome to use. They introduced an unnecessary 2 SEK coin, that is almost indistinguishable from the 1 SEK coin — especially if you are unused to them. They also introduced an unnecessary 200 SEK bill, that was just too big to be useful for small purchases. Several times I've seen people at ATMs withdrawing 100 SEK over and over again, just because they wanted the more useful 100 SEK bills.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#407

Post by ifwinterco »

concerned_user wrote: post #401
ifwinterco wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon as well seems to never do proper auth (at least here in the UK). When using an existing card where the delivery address matches the billing address, card transactions go through instantly

There is no rule that there has to be a single payment per authorization, if you read for example mastercard API https://in.gateway.mastercard.com/api/documentation/integrat... it says you can partially capture, you can extend authorization. So for all you know when you buy at amazon it just updates the authorization and charges you later but keeps authorization going and amazon might just check if they have auth tok…

That would make sense, and I guess if you tried something suspicious (larger order to a new address), you would get the full auth flow

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#408

Post by lxgr »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #385
lxgr wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often this is indeed trust-based, but the trust isn't due to you having a card issued by a trusted bank (most airlines accept debit cards too), but rather due to passengers being extremely visible and well-identified: In-flight credit card fraud is an incredibly bad idea, given that most countries check your ID at least at some point during getting on the plane, and seats are usually assigned as well. (Doesn't mean t…

Not that I disagree, but it does make me wonder if this would be one rare instance where American Express which I know is notorious for siding with their customers (at least for a time? - my father worked as an accounts payable accountant at a big hotel in Orlando near Disney World and he said American Express was notorious at not paying even with signature if their customer claimed it was fraud) would still side wit…

I doubt you'll see any bank not siding with the cardholder in an offline or deferred-online scenario, since they're usually not liable for any ensuing fraud and accordingly can just charge the transaction back from the merchant.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#410

Post by DaSHacka »

swiftcoder wrote: post #356
smegger001 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know its not uncommon at small business to ad a surcharge for using cards on purchases below a certain dollar value rather than a discount for cash.

This is explicitly forbidden by almost all card processing networks (and by the government, in many countries). If you report a business who is doing this to the card processor, they'll likely get their card processing privileges suspended.

What's the difference between giving discounts for cash and adding surcharges for cards?
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