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Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

theguardian.com

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Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#401

Post by jasonvorhe »

gruez wrote: post #370
thisislife2 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The project began after a meeting in 2021 between Microsoft’s chief executive, Satya Nadella, and the unit’s then commander, Yossi Sariel ... In response to the investigation, Microsoft ordered an urgent external inquiry to review its relationship with Unit 8200. Its initial findings have now led the company to cancel the unit’s access to some of its cloud storage and AI services. "Some" ... Microsoft's chief execu…

>to spy on people against whom a genocide is ongoing by their colonial occupiers To be fair in 2021 you'd be laughed out of the room (or be in a DSA conference) if you called what was happening in Palestine a "genocide".

True, the correct term back then would've been apartheid.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#402

Post by hashim »

sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #386
Forgeties79 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every protest we praise in history broke the law at some point. “Promote company-hating propaganda” is an interesting way to describe what happened.

Building a website on internal Microsoft infra that ledes with a picture of "Azure Kills Kids" is beyond the pale.

I'm not sure you know what "beyond the pale" means. You probably shouldn't look into the history of the suffragette or civil rights movements, for your own sanity.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#403

Post by sugarpimpdorsey »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #391
sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a website on internal Microsoft infra that ledes with a picture of "Azure Kills Kids" is beyond the pale.

That’s a pretty low bar for “beyond the pale.” Company PR isn’t some sacred thing and these people paid a hefty price for their protest. They should be praised for their bravery even if you disagree with their message.

I make no comment on their message but you cannot use company resources to do it and not expect consequences.

Sorry if that is unclear.

This is a fireable offense in nearly every company handbook in existence.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#404

Post by rkachowski »

duxup wrote: post #269
nashashmi wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One protestor was fired after interrupting a CEO's speech.

I feel like interrupting a CEO's speech at a big conference is pretty well understood to be a social indicator of a high level of insubordination. I suspect the protestor knew that too. The consequences were appropriate, even if I might share some of the protestor's concerns.

You feel that being fired is an appropriate consequence to interrupting a CEO?

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#405

Post by lomase »

dmix wrote: post #317
thewebguyd wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rioting and vandalism are unacceptable...until they aren't and are instead necessary. Is everyone so quick to forget that the rights we have today in the US were won through violence after all other methods failed? The 40 hour work week we enjoy today was also won through blood. Now, in this case between employees and Microsoft I'd agree, no, vandalism wasn't necessary at all. But when it comes to defending our right…

There’s been a couple studies showing that disruptive protests (blocking roads, yelling at people entering buildings, etc) cause public support for their cause to decrease or even increase opposition. If the ideas are good then support will build through effectively communicating those ideas. Being noisy is fine but there’s an obvious line that selfish activists cross. The sort of people who want their toys now and d…

I think the people is just more vocal, not that the protest changed its opinion, but now they have an excuse, violence, to go against the cause they did not like.

"Violence" like stoping the traffic. If that is violence...

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#406

Post by hashim »

ahf8Aithaex7Nai wrote: post #394
hashim wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other reasons are Microsoft very very bad? Genuinely curious about what your definition of "very, very bad" is and whether it aligns with mine.

Search for "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish".

So the criticisms from the 90s that I mentioned in my other comment? Yeah, I prefer to live in the modern world. It isn't Microsoft that needs to be hit with antitrusts in 2025. It's Apple and Google. Live moves on, and in 2025, Microsoft is one of the more ethical tech companies around, unless you're one of the many sheltered people in tech that think targeted advertising is manifest evil that's on par with enabling a genocide.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#407

Post by basilgohar »

dotancohen wrote: post #397
basilgohar wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the IDF and Israel governments explicit goal, as stated by high up government officials and leaders, to eradicate all Palestians in Gaza. A cursory view into their own Hebrew media make this abundantly clear. They are committing a genocide in both word and deed.

[flagged]

It is not a lie. It is so extreme that it has merited its own Wikipedia page [0], but don't trust that, read the citations. Leaders[1] statements[2] have been chronicled calling for genocide. It is happening in both word and action.

Resisting an occupying force is not genocide.

[1] https://amnesty.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/Amnesty-Intern...

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20250916081026/https://www.ohchr...

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intent_and_incitement_in_the_G...

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#408

Post by ahf8Aithaex7Nai »

collinmcnulty wrote: post #218
bhouston wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes it’s a good thing AND we don’t need to be celebrating companies when they finally do the bare minimum. I think we should give props here. This is an important step forward. Thank you Microsoft! I think we should protest when companies do things that are wrong and we should give them kudos when they make good moves. Carrot and stick. I am not fans of those that say because you did wrong things in the past, I wil…

I agree. If we want our pressure campaigns to be successful, we need to reward companies that respond to them.

What kind of pressure campaign are we talking about here? And what kind of reward? Are we now buying Microsoft products because Microsoft's cloud storage is no longer allowed to be used in genocide, only Office and email? That's absurd. What this is about is public opinion, and that takes years and decades to change. And that's a good thing. If you change your tune after every Microsoft PR release, it's not you who's holding the carrot and the stick, it's Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#409

Post by shadowgovt »

dijit wrote: post #356

I think people don't tend to realise how authoritarian the internal structures of companies are. They're effectively miniature dictatorships. Normalising removing services because a tenant does something you personally find disagreeable is fine in the moment, but what happens when it's someone you support? Like when they removed Office365 access for a member of the EU parliament.[0] For me, this is more proof (not le…

I expect this to continue to be the conflict of responsibility and capability in the 21st century.

Alfred Nobel was known as a "merchant of death" for enabling the use of combat explosives that could do (by the standards of the time) preposterous damage to people, but his argument was that he just sold the dynamite; he wasn't responsible for the anarchists getting it and bombing something twice a week in New York. And even then, his conscience weighed on him enough that he endowed a Peace Prize when he died.

The story is different when the data conversion is being done on machines you own, in buildings you own, in a company you own (for practical reasons in addition to moral / theoretical; if someone wants to stop those computations, they're now going after your stuff, not trying to stop a supply-chain).

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#410

Post by duxup »

gmueckl wrote: post #363
snickerdoodle14 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> insubordination Are we talking about the military or some company?

US corporate culture has a stronger sense of hierarchy than many other countries. It is an environment where one can get fired quickly and suddenly and that instills a lot of obedience and discipline (if not outright fear) in employees.

I don't even think you need a strong sense of hierarchy. The meaning of the word would apply anywhere.
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