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Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

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Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#401

Post by JumpinJack_Cash »

panick21_ wrote: post #397
JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Ok so how is SpaceX not succcessful. Please explain. Only isolated people need Starklink and 95% of people on Earth live in urban cities with pop > 100,000. So it's a product for the 5%

Ok, great so fuck those people then right? What kind of absurd argument is that? Like any company that doesn't serve 100% of people on the planet is by definition not a success? That's the dumbest fucking argument I have ever heard and I hope you are not actually series about that. Because Apple doesn't serve 100% of the population either, so clearly Apple is not successful. By your logic right? And its not even true…

The world was never the same after Windows 95 or the iPhone, or Google search Amazon or Facebook. Paradigm shifts they were

Musk companies are essentially reinventing the wheel for no reason whatsoever (or for political purposes) chasing what can be defined at best extremely marginal quality of life improvement for the general population.

Uber and the food delivery apps are much more consequential but they are not as performative as a rocket landing on its butt, so easily amused people are not as enthusiastic (even though they are on the aforementioned food delivery apps 3+ times per day)

> > Common man, its fine to hate Musk, but at some point reality is a thing.

Reality implies that an individual be present and having knowledge of where their quality of life comes from . If you disappeared Musk companies the world will go on without a single trouble. Disappear Microsoft or Apple or Aramco or Google and you'll have Civil War within a week. Maybe you should get a dose of reality, for the stock market is not it, however pleasant the gainz might be.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#402

Post by ethbr1 »

JohnFen wrote: post #256
ActionHank wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is less around how engineers behave, and more around how organisations behave. If an organisation is constantly retrenching experienced staff and cutting corners to increase earnings rather than being driven by engineering first, it doesn't matter what the engineers do amongst themselves. This culture, in fact, rewards engineers doing a bad job.

Not all organizations behave that way, though. If you reword my comment to indicate the company attitudes themselves, it still largely holds true. I confess to a selection bias, because I won't work at a company that doesn't behave that way. Life is too short for that BS. However, that I maintain employment at the expected pay rates while doing so indicates that there are a lot of companies who don't behave the way y…

The differentiator is market value.

Any company that does engineering "well" likely has slower growth and a smaller PE multiple.

Consequently, you don't hear about it nearly as much as the splashy, full-financial-speed-ahead companies.

Tl;dr - don't buy products or services from companies with high valuation stock prices... they're making that profit somewhere

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#403

Post by curiousObject »

jjav wrote: post #366
curiousObject wrote: post #10

It’s an accident that could also happen to an inattentive human driver. (Ask me how I know :( ) But, if you watch the car’s display panel, it looks as if the car didn’t see anything and just went full speed ahead. That’s not great. It should have slowed down and alerted the driver that something was there. I didn’t watch the complete video so maybe there’s more.

> It’s an accident that could also happen to an inattentive human driver. (Ask me how I know :( ) Anything "could" happen, but it would take an inordinately inattentive driver to be this bad . They had 7-8 seconds of staring and talking about the debris before hitting it (or perhaps more, the video starts the moment the guy says "we got eh, a something", but possibly he saw it some instants before that). So a person…

Yes, but we want self-driving cars to be better than that, or there’s no need for them

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#404

Post by enslavedrobot »

pavlov wrote: post #346
enslavedrobot wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is because mobileye patented (US20080137908A1) it and won't let tesla use it.

If that's the case, why didn't Tesla just issue refunds to us customers in Europe? If it's really due to a patent, that just makes it worse. Tesla has known all along that they can't deliver the product they sold.

The cars drive themselves incredibly well in US, Canada, China, and Australia The iEU is blocking deployment to protect their own automotive industry. Reading speed signs is not necessary for the system to function. In Canada my car drives the speed of traffic just fine. If you live in Europe regulatory sludge has robbed you of FSD not Tesla.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#405

Post by panick21_ »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #401
panick21_ wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, great so fuck those people then right? What kind of absurd argument is that? Like any company that doesn't serve 100% of people on the planet is by definition not a success? That's the dumbest fucking argument I have ever heard and I hope you are not actually series about that. Because Apple doesn't serve 100% of the population either, so clearly Apple is not successful. By your logic right? And its not even true…

The world was never the same after Windows 95 or the iPhone, or Google search Amazon or Facebook. Paradigm shifts they were Musk companies are essentially reinventing the wheel for no reason whatsoever (or for political purposes) chasing what can be defined at best extremely marginal quality of life improvement for the general population. Uber and the food delivery apps are much more consequential but they are not as…

Ok so anything that doesn't fundamentally reshape the world is not a 'success'.

I never argued that Starlink is as important as the IPhone. That's just a strawman that you set up.

You are just fundamentally arguing in bad faith.

> Musk companies are essentially reinventing the wheel

Even if this was true, and it isn't, its just another argument in bad faith. The wheel has been reinvented many times and often rather successfully by many different companies.

> Uber and the food delivery apps are much more consequential

Again, I have no fucking idea what your argument is. We were not arguing about what is more successful. This is again just a strawman.

But outside of that, if Uber and food delivery apps didn't exist there are 100s of companies who could reproduce them in just a couple of month. And in fact there are likely 100s of smaller competitors, and one of them would grow to be Uber or Doordash. If Uber wasn't there Lyft could replace it just fine. Without Doordash, Delivery Hero or Uber Eats would take over in no time.

This is not the case with SpaceX, if SpaceX disappeared it would take 10-20+ years for any other company to replace it, likely longer. Maybe a combination of companies could do it shorter. Boeing ever finished Starliner. If Amazon investing heavenly into Kupiter. And if BlueOrigin continues to burn money to invest into new Glenn, then maybe in 10 years we might have SpaceX level of capability back.

The facts are this, if SpaceX collapsed tomorrow, there is a 100% chance that the government would step in and save it. Its absolute fundamentally critical to US military and civilians space. And thanks to Starshields its fundamentally critical to the whole navy and airforce.

If however Uber collapsed tomorrow, in couple of month nobody would be talking about it anymore except one of those 'Bankroupt - The Rise and Fall of Uber Story' youtube videos.

> If you

Literally just more strawman stuff that has literally nothing to do what so ever with my original argument.

The position you seem to be outlining here is that any company that is not as big and successful as Microsoft, Apple or Google, 3 of the largest companies in the planet, then you can not be considered a 'success'. Again, this is fundamentally fucking stupid as by that definition most companies on the planet that exists are not successful.

And only a person with severe Musk reality distortion would try to passionately make the argument that SpaceX isn't a success. In fact nobody would spend time even typing out such a dumb argument if it wasn't for Musk being CEO.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#406

Post by silpheed5 »

enslavedrobot wrote: post #404
pavlov wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case, why didn't Tesla just issue refunds to us customers in Europe? If it's really due to a patent, that just makes it worse. Tesla has known all along that they can't deliver the product they sold.

The cars drive themselves incredibly well in US, Canada, China, and Australia The iEU is blocking deployment to protect their own automotive industry. Reading speed signs is not necessary for the system to function. In Canada my car drives the speed of traffic just fine. If you live in Europe regulatory sludge has robbed you of FSD not Tesla.

The article pretty much contradicts this - the cars don't drive themselves exceptionally well, unless you're constantly monitoring them. This is expected considering the actual capabilities of Tesla's 'FSD,' but it falls short of the promised performance.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#407

Post by Smoosh »

navane wrote: post #315
JohnFen wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there is. In every place that I've worked, including my current position, acknowledging when you're wrong or have failed at something increases trust in you and your professionalism. People who always have an excuse, try to shift blame, etc., are assumed to be lacking in competency (let alone ethics and trustworthiness).

The point is not to have an excuse or shift blame, but just talk over the issue "tired of talking about $thing", and shift the conversation.

"Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?”

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#408

Post by enslavedrobot »

silpheed5 wrote: post #406
enslavedrobot wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cars drive themselves incredibly well in US, Canada, China, and Australia The iEU is blocking deployment to protect their own automotive industry. Reading speed signs is not necessary for the system to function. In Canada my car drives the speed of traffic just fine. If you live in Europe regulatory sludge has robbed you of FSD not Tesla.

The article pretty much contradicts this - the cars don't drive themselves exceptionally well, unless you're constantly monitoring them. This is expected considering the actual capabilities of Tesla's 'FSD,' but it falls short of the promised performance.

I'm very happy with the performance. I use FSD everyday. It is very very good. I only intervene when I want to. In my last generation hardware, that runs on a 144 TOPS computer, it will very occasionally (twice in the last 4 months) do something like start moving a few seconds before a red light turns green. These critical interventions happened all the time a couple of years ago, but since the introduction of V12 software have been all but eliminated.

FSD is literally improving exponentially, looking at it in Europe (where it is blocked by regulators with economic incentives to delay Tesla's progress) is like looking at a fully fueled rocket ship at ignition and complaining that it is not moving.

Go take a ride in a new Model Y with hardware 4 and V13 software in North America and you'll realize how the EU regulators are screwing over European customers.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#409

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

newyankee wrote: post #206
root_axis wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced. The debris is clearly visible to the humans a long way off and the adjacent lane is wide open. Avoiding road debris is extremely common even in more congested and treacherous driving conditions. Certainly it's possible that someone texting on their phone or something might miss it, but under normal circumstances it could have been easily avoided.

I feel Waymo's LIDAR might have worked here

Stereo vision might have helped too to assess the size of it, but from the pre-crash display at 0:07 it looks like the Tesla didn't see the object at all, which is a bit surprising since it was large enough, and very clearly looked like exactly what it was - a big chunk of metal.

The car reacted the opposite a human would. If you saw something unidentifed ("road kill?") in the distance then you'd be focusing on it and prepared to react according to what it was. With an empty lane beside you I think most drivers would be steering around it just based on size, even before they realized exactly what it was (when emergency braking might be called for).

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#410

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

ape4 wrote: post #93
rob74 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I have to admit that your friend has a point. Humans are bad at reacting quickly and correctly to unexpected situations, and some debris large enough to damage your car showing up from out of nowhere after several hours of boring driving along a largely straight highway with little traffic is definitely one of these situations. But a self-driving system worth its salt should always be alert, scanning the road a…

And a self-driving car should have better sensors than a human (like lidar)

Even with a single camera (no stereo vision) which is all a Tesla has, it's honestly surprising it didn't see that thing. It wasn't small.

If it can't see something like that in ideal conditions, then god knows what else it'd miss in less ideal conditions.

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