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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#401

Post by sandworm101 »

haspok wrote: post #281
sandworm101 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Then again, big city living isn't for me anyway (obviously). I will always choose smaller to mid sized cities, and possibly even rural at some point in the future, for the personal reasons outlined above. Exactly. Not everyone wants to live in a "walkable" city. I would hazard that most in fact don't. A city is a place you go for services. It is where the big shopping centers and hospitals are. It is where the cor…

Switzerland seems to have kind of the perfect blend of a solution (apart from the lack of space in general): it is _very_ car centric, almost everyone has a car, like in the US. On the other hand, to commute to work from their little sleeping villages they use the excellent train network which makes it possible to do the daily commute faster than by car. And many people use their ebikes, if for nothing else, just to…

>> How is that possible, if nobody wants to live in a city?

Some do, but many need to for work. As mobility for non-rich average people is reduced, more and more people simply must be in the city for work/services. (That is the only reason I am in a city. I would escape in a heartbeat if my job allowed it.) Where personal transport is cheaper and more available, people flock to suburbs and even "exurbs", which are a big thing now in Texas.

My example: I am often on 1-hour 24/7 recall (military, I don't get to choose my work location). That means I suffer on both ends. I need to be in the city and I must either live/sleep/shop within mile of work or have instant access to a personal vehicle. I guess could setup a cot and sleep beside my desk. That would reduce congestion. But is that a life anyone wants to live?

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#402

Post by hulitu »

CalRobert wrote: post #33
notorandit wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is not just car-centric. It is "private mobility"-centric. In towns, and large towns especially, public mobility should be the rule and private one the exception. If any. And maybe also for long distance mobility.

Might I suggest bikes are a great form of private mobility?

> Might I suggest bikes are a great form of private mobility?

Yes you may. They fall short though for distances bigger than a couple of km, when carrying something or by bad weather.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#403

Post by scott_w »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #196
qwertygnu wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my personal car bubble as much or more than most people (though maybe not as much as you), but at some point we have to get over ourselves. We're all so spoiled. Why the hell do we deserve to all have our own giant speed machines careening through cities where people (including us drivers!) are trying to live? It doesn't make any sense and it's a shame that we've let it go so far, especially in the US. It shou…

Do you have kids? I don't think so (correct me if I'm wrong). Car is absolutely essential for driving around small kids no matter the urban density. I'm more dependent on my car(s) when I got the first newborn than I ever was.

Simply untrue in many places. My next-door neighbour rides his bike with his daughter to school then rides to work at the nearby hospital (up a gnarly bank, too). I see many kids walking to school all year round. Kids are more than capable of making their own way to school from the age of 8-10, depending on the distance.

Driving your car is absolutely a choice in many cities, and a poor choice at that.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#404

Post by nonethewiser »

sebstefan wrote: post #157
AlexandrB wrote: post #153

One factor here is the perception of safety. To choose public transit over a car, you have to feel safe walking to/from the station and you have to feel safe riding the train. This is especially true if you are at a physical disadvantage because of gender, disability, age, whatever. Because it's a perception thing, this is not just about statistics. A dirty, chaotic subway station just feels threatening to passengers…

[flagged]

There is a certain class of danger from public transport, and a certain class of danger from driving. They are rather different. Have you ever taken public transportation with any regularity in the US? Drove?

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#405

Post by nonethewiser »

cpburns2009 wrote: post #297
sebstefan wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A Ukrainian refugee being savagely murdered on US public transport isn't a good look.

And consider how often you are on edge from people's behavior around you and nothing happens. That's a normal, "safe" (in outcome) trip and yet it still didnt feel safe.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#406

Post by esarbe »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #314
NickPollard wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 4 year old and an 18 month old, and I don't own a car (nor does my partner). We rent a car ~10-20 times a year, but that's usually for vacations or trips out of the city to visit family. Regular weekly family life we use buses, the underground (metro), trains, or sometimes taxis. We are considering eventually getting a car, but we've managed for 4 years with children to not need one and it's not been an issu…

Sure, it works in your context, you live in a city with 9 million people and you sometimes rent a car - fine. I live in a city 100x smaller. I literally don't know a person that doesn't own a car, or at least has access to a car. The context actually get far more granular than it. I lived without a car for 25 years of my life, buses and trains were enough. But all it takes to require a car is having a home 3-4 km fro…

This is a problem with city design, not city size.

That's exactly what "making cities work for people instead of cars" is all about.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#407

Post by SoftTalker »

bombcar wrote: post #316
christina97 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t enjoy the 15 minutes I spend packed in the NY subway when I have to take it during rush hour, but I do enjoy hopping on the subway off-peak when the cars are half empty and I get a seat and open my subway book. Similarly I hated being stuck in 30 minutes of bumper-to-bumper traffic during my old commute in a past life. But I do really enjoy driving on new routes when the road is half empty. My two observation…

Rush hour is more of a problem than people will admit; the biggest issue with public transit (in general) is that it is horribly "unprofitable" (for whatever you want that to be) except curing crush-time. At the extremes, a bus (or worse, a train) with one driver and one passenger is obviously worse than one person in a car. But transportation is not Car vs the World™ no matter how many people (online) want it to be.…

> At the extremes, a bus (or worse, a train) with one driver and one passenger is obviously worse than one person in a car.

Or driving with no passengers at all, not uncommon for the buses where I live at certain times and routes.

It's sort of a chicken and egg problem. You can optimize equipment usage by running more buses on heavily used routes but you can't encourage new ridership on new routes without running enough buses to make it at least somewhat convenient. If you miss your bus and have to wait an hour or more for the next one, most people don't find that very appealing.

But at some point if you're running a whole bus to move a small number of people, you need to admit it's not worth it and eliminate that route. It would be more economical to just give those people taxi rides.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#408

Post by npteljes »

dijit wrote: post #96
npteljes wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there's a lady next to you on the train that covered herself in perfume. Or urine. Or they want to beat you up, or worse. I can't imagine good public transport without the "good public".

Come to Europe, especially northern Europe. The wealthy population also take public transport, it's sort of expected that its for everyone... this seems to alter the behaviour of people in a positive way. Maybe through enhanced enforcement by police? or perhaps social conditioning through higher expectations? idk. US Public transport is not a model of what public transport is like; it's only an example of failed infr…

I'm in Europe. Hungary though, mind you, not the fancier part of Europe. Trains here are late, sticky, and lawless.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#409

Post by scott_w »

stephen_g wrote: post #4

I think the thing that really struck a chord with me about car-centric development, as someone who lives in a city with fairly poor public transport (by certain standards, it would actually be quite good if it were in the US) and where driving is the norm for getting around - Prioritising cars actually makes things worse for drivers. We spend many tens of billions of dollars a year on roads in my state and traffic in…

> Prioritising cars actually makes things worse for drivers.

I 100% agree. I live in Newcastle, a city that is fairly car centric, but we have a Metro line and have had pushes to increase bus and bicycle transport (though Labour are generally bad for active travel).

My brother moved to Leeds, one of the largest cities in Europe without a Metro or tram. Driving anywhere in the city is fucking awful. The planners clearly kept trying to add one more lane and the result is congestion everywhere, even at quiet times.

I've also driven round Liverpool and Manchester and found, though they're better as they have Metro lines, the car-centric roads are still really awful to drive on.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#410

Post by sensanaty »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #196
qwertygnu wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my personal car bubble as much or more than most people (though maybe not as much as you), but at some point we have to get over ourselves. We're all so spoiled. Why the hell do we deserve to all have our own giant speed machines careening through cities where people (including us drivers!) are trying to live? It doesn't make any sense and it's a shame that we've let it go so far, especially in the US. It shou…

Do you have kids? I don't think so (correct me if I'm wrong). Car is absolutely essential for driving around small kids no matter the urban density. I'm more dependent on my car(s) when I got the first newborn than I ever was.

I mean that's a depressing existence for the kids. I walked and biked around everywhere since I was 6 or 7 years old, I'm extremely thankful I didn't have to rely on my parents being free to drive me around so I could see my friends.
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