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Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

helsinkitimes.fi

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Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#401

Post by zimpenfish »

globular-toast wrote: post #374
graemep wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand the UK as a whole had a lower road traffic realted death rate than Finland did: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... The UK is not that different by comparison. It is a pretty remarkable achievement though, and shows what can be done.

That's because in the UK people just don't walk, except in certain places. You wouldn't get this crane incident happening in London, for example. But in other places people just won't walk there. One way to reduce deaths is just get everyone into cars.

> You wouldn't get this crane incident happening in London, for example.

I'm assuming you mean "blocking the pavement without signage" there?

Although even that is a stretch because I can assure you that blocking the pavement with cranes, commercial vehicles, personal vehicles, etc. happens all over the damn place in London, with and without signage.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#402

Post by userbinator »

userbinator wrote: post #263
knome wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking both ways is undone if drivers are speeding, not bothering to stop at stop signs and being generally unpredictable and dangerous. Blaming pedestrians for getting run over by speeders that are too impatient to drive at safe speeds in residential areas is a ludicrous opinion to take.

If you can't estimate how fast traffic is moving, you are either a child too young to cross unattended, or an idiot deserving of your fate. Pedestrians have far better visibility and can stop or change directions far more quickly than the slowest car.

Apparently the laws of physics are lost on those who don't believe me.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#403

Post by Saline9515 »

twixfel wrote: post #400
Saline9515 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very entitled comment. The food worker who has to stand up for the whole day to make your matcha frappuccino could enjoy some rest on the way home.

Driving a car in the isn’t restful in the slightest.

The parent was talking about public transport. Sitting in a bus is restful, you can read a book or watch a movie, or just dream away.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#404

Post by rwyinuse »

sophia01 wrote: post #220
graemep wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand the UK as a whole had a lower road traffic realted death rate than Finland did: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... The UK is not that different by comparison. It is a pretty remarkable achievement though, and shows what can be done.

> The UK is not that different by comparison. Do note that the UK is 15.6x as dense as Finland, and the climate is quite different: e.g. in Helsinki (southermost city) mean daily temperature is below freezing point 4/12 months of the year (very consequential for driving). E.g. in Scotland even the mean daily minimum does not cross freezing point in any month. OECD data has Finland at 0.36 fatalities per 10k vehicles…

Yet most deadly months for traffic in Finland are summer months, when more people are driving, drinking alcohol and having a lot of free time.

At least in the countryside a stereotypical summer month death is one where bunch of young men go to a party with their old BMW or Merc, and then drive back in middle of the night at a crazy speed and hit a tree. Bonus points for the driver being drunk/on drugs and nobody wearing seatbelts.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#405

Post by makeitdouble »

cyberax wrote: post #242
mzmzmzm wrote: post #80

At the same time NYC and Toronto, we are removing protected bike lanes. In North America the acceptable amount of lives per year to sacrifice for a little convenience for drivers is above zero, and apparently rising.

> At the same time NYC and Toronto, we are removing protected bike lanes. In North America the acceptable amount of lives per year to sacrifice for a little convenience for drivers is above zero, and apparently rising. BTW, what do you think about the 5-10 extra lifetimes that people in NYC collectively waste _every_ _day_ in commute compared to smaller cities? A well-designed car-oriented city will have commutes of…

> well-designed car-oriented city

Might be true, but at this point it's an utopian level of fantasy. We spent more than a century with cars in old cities, new cities, smaller ones bigger ones.

The only proven results we've had is reducing cars solveany problems at once.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#406

Post by rwyinuse »

exe34 wrote: post #397
bluescrn wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero MPH = zero traffic = zero road deaths. But without transport significantly more people will die from other things, due to reduced access to healthcare, employment, food, etc. In a modern society, road transport is a critical part of our life support system. Those pushing for a what they see as a car-free utopia tend to ignore this.

It's almost as if a balance could be achieved, both by reducing the number of cars and increasing the number of trains/busses.

Yep. Something worth considering is also building long-term parking spaces to the outskirts of cities, accessible with public transport. I know lots of city-dwellers who pretty much never use a car for intra-city transport, but need to own one anyway to reach other important places that are beyond reach of public transport.

In case of Finland summer cottages are one such case. They're extremely common, and located in areas that usually have no public transport. Lots of people have also older relatives who live in middle of nothing.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#407

Post by PeterStuer »

Amazing as I have been to Finland many times for work, and (at least some of) the Fins drive like crazy, especially on the back roads through the forests. Imagine being in one of these insane rally car competitions, but it's actually just a Fin driving a minivan.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#408

Post by PeterStuer »

_kidlike wrote: post #389
bsimpson wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland has the most pristine roads of anywhere I've ever ridden. They also have a bonkers amount of road construction.

most pristine roads with most hostile arrangement towards drivers, at least in Zurich. There are some insanely complicated intersections in 4D, that if you don't follow the correct series of 10 consecutive lane switches and sub-exits in 2 minutes you end up with a 20 minute mistake. Country side is very enjoyable though.

Basel has a few of those puzzles as well.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#409

Post by scns »

sapiogram wrote: post #50
Dig1t wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Making drivers miserable is part of the intention, they want people to drive less because it's annoying as hell for everyone else.

The intention is to prevent accidents. Encountering 30kmh zones in strange places means there have been loads of them.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#410

Post by PeterStuer »

eCa wrote: post #141
tlogan wrote: post #124

Maybe Helsinki isn’t special: just fewer cars. And they apparently only 21% of daily trips used a private car. Helsinki has about 3x fewer vehicles per capita than the average U.S. city. So it’s not surprising it’s safer since fewer cars mean fewer chances of getting hit by one. Plus their cars are much smaller. In fact, there are probably plenty of U.S. towns and cities with similar number of cars that have zero tra…

The question to ask is, why are there less cars? Public transport. As an example, just the tram network had 57 million trips in 2019. The metro, 90+ million trips annually. The commuter rail network? 70+ million. (Source: wikipedia) So yes. Urban planning has a hand or two in it.

Public transport in and around Helsinki is extremely good. Both busses and rail are very reliable, comfortable and clean with free wifi everywhere.
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