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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#401

Post by privatelypublic »

whyever wrote: post #345
privatelypublic wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its likely a misunderstanding and/or mischaracterization of "tolerance stacking." A safe example is bike chain. If each one is 1 inch +- 0.01", if every single one is +0.01" then ten links will be long by a tenth of an inch. And might pass QC on the bike when pedaled by hand- but it'll fall off when somebodies full bodyweight and 100hrs of wear is out into it.

That's not how errors add up, it's nonlinear. You have to take the sum of squares. So in your case, it wouldn't be 10 * 0.01 = 0.1, but sqrt(10 * 0.01^2) = 0.032, which is less than one third of a tenth.

I provided a "worst case", not statistical, example.

For those who want an example, calculator, and demo see: https://www.smlease.com/entries/tolerance/tolerance-stackup-...

NB: using disks like the site does provides a clearer example.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#402

Post by echelon_musk »

antonymoose wrote: post #349
franktankbank wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy that Sig Sauer is pushing back on this as lies then. (per featured article)

It’s crazy if you have good morals and care about your fellow man. If you want to make boatloads of cash and don’t care about lives, you follow the rules and the same playbook as Remington did when their rifles suffered a similar self-firing phenomenon that killed customers. Delay, deny, defend yourself and take in as much cash as possible until you are legally boxed in. Hope at that point your profits are greater th…

> ...have good morals and care about your fellow man.

Seems opposed to the values of an arms manufacturer.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#403

Post by abbycurtis33 »

jack_riminton wrote: post #311
mNovak wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just watching this, and he's saying this model has no manual safety. That's an absolutely wild design choice in my mind!

I carried a Sig in Afghanistan and whilst I was very experienced with firearms, the no manual safety thing gave me major heebie geebies

If you have experience with firearms then you know that very few modern handguns have manual safeties.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#404

Post by abbycurtis33 »

tshaddox wrote: post #14
hollywood_court wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be personal preference, but IMHO there’s no reason to conceal carry if you’re going to do it without a round chambered. I’m a huge Sig collector and I’ve been a fan of theirs since the 90s. I’ve carried a Sig daily for 20+ years. I only carried a P320 for a few months until I finally downsized to the P365. But I’ve got to admit that their PR and response to these incidents is not a good look. But I am a bit…

> IMHO there’s no reason to conceal carry if you’re going to do it without a round chambered. Why is that your opinion? Surely there's a wide variety of plausible scenarios where carrying a concealed weapon without a round chambered is much better than not carrying a concealed weapon.

There is overwhelming consensus that you should carry with a round in the chamber. Most gun fights happen close and fast.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#405

Post by ipv6ipv4 »

AngryData wrote: post #317
ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of informative comments in the thread about how carrying with a chambered round reduces the time and complexity to getting a shot off. This information should be kept in mind whenever anyone, especially a gun advocate, expresses dismay at the frequency of police shootings in America. America is so awash in guns, and people willing to use them, that for the average cop it is better to shoot first and ask questi…

To me that just sounds like a huge excuse for cops who are rarely ever shot at in real life. The majority of cops never even have a reason to draw or fire their gun their entire career. Being a cop isn't even a very dangerous job, and all but a handful of cop injuries on the job are due to car crashes that they themselves initiated. A random residential framer has a far higher chance of injury and death than cops in…

I’m not saying cops are always free of fault, and yes, some are trigger happy goons. But in an environment that affords close to zero reaction time, it is no surprise that cops are trained the way they are, and behave the way they do. Indeed, they are not in danger most of the time. But when they are, they have close to no time to think about it. As a result, it is in the interest of their own well being to assume that all situations are dangerous and to act accordingly.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#406

Post by upfrog »

solatic wrote: post #291
deelowe wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many modern guns for personal protection do not have manually actuated safeties and instead rely on other mechanisms to prevent accidental discharge. For example, glocks have a "trigger safety." Without getting into minutia, these sort of features do a fine job of ensuring the gun does not fire unless the trigger is intentionally actuated. The reason manual safeties are going away is that for side arms, time matters…

> The reason manual safeties are going away is that for side arms, time matters A LOT. Gun fights are typically over within just a few seconds and the person who fires first has a huge advantage. I know there are a lot of people who share this opinion, but speaking as ex-military, I think it's quite disingenuous and dangerous. Real life isn't some old-fashioned Western film where draw speed matters. If an adversary i…

There are in fact civilian situations - many of them captured on camera - where the difference between carrying in condition 1/2 vs condition 3 is critical to the outcome. Active Self Protection on YouTube has thousands of examples of defensive incidents involving firearms, and the cost of the extra time and mechanical complexity to rack a round is a common theme.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#407

Post by ipv6ipv4 »

gosub100 wrote: post #343
ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of informative comments in the thread about how carrying with a chambered round reduces the time and complexity to getting a shot off. This information should be kept in mind whenever anyone, especially a gun advocate, expresses dismay at the frequency of police shootings in America. America is so awash in guns, and people willing to use them, that for the average cop it is better to shoot first and ask questi…

they dont "go home" in a body bag. and the rest of your post is just as hyperbolic and ignorant.

How can you in good conscience write such obvious, and easily falsifiable falsehoods?

https://www.cleveland19.com/2025/07/24/3-lorain-police-offic...

https://nypost.com/2025/07/24/us-news/long-island-cop-shot-i...

https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-police-officer-corder...

and on, and on...

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#409

Post by gosub100 »

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #407
gosub100 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they dont "go home" in a body bag. and the rest of your post is just as hyperbolic and ignorant.

How can you in good conscience write such obvious, and easily falsifiable falsehoods? https://www.cleveland19.com/2025/07/24/3-lorain-police-offic... https://nypost.com/2025/07/24/us-news/long-island-cop-shot-i... https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-police-officer-corder... and on, and on...

they don't "go home" in a body bag. they go to the morgue, and to a funeral home, to a grave or an urn. You know about as much about guns as you do about deaths. You are only posting emotionally loaded responses, not actually thinking about a word you say.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#410

Post by ummonk »

AngryData wrote: post #315
ahoka wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That isn't going to stop crime in the US or make dangerous areas in the US really any safer though. Nobody is concerned about someone legally carrying deciding to randomly shoot them.

Okay now you’re being hyperbolic in the other direction. There are plenty of incidents of minor arguments / road rage turning deadly because someone legally carrying decided to draw and use their firearm when there wasn’t any imminent danger.

It’s certainly not the norm for gun violence in public but it’s certainly not a nonexistent risk either.

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