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UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

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Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#401
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a feature of iMessage with various names such as "zero click". All web results for `imessage "zero click"` are about vulnerabilities/exploits. Are you claiming some of these are intentional, or what?

It's been used by state actors for years. May as well publish the API for it. These aren't rare and special flowers that are each artisanally discovered after searching for a million hours. And it is nicely packaged in an app that is used for something simple like text messages. "An Israeli spyware company has reportedly cut access to its clients in Italy following allegations that its product was used to target crit…

Why are you quoting an article about WhatsApp after making a claim about iMessage and what Apple builds in?

(Not that the article has any evidence supporting the same claim about WhatsApp, either. In fact, the article describes WhatsApp/Meta claiming to have "disrupted" the spying and reporting it to the Italian government.)

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the US, even if Apple doesn’t have a backdoor, isn’t NSA linked up into the telecom companies already?

If there's a properly implemented end-to-end encryption, then NSA cannot see anything, even having full access to telco-s.

> if the target uses iCloud backup, the encryption keys should also be provided with content return

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21114562/jan-2021-fbi...

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#403
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s just run of the mill authoritarianism, calling it fascism glosses over how it has proponents in every political persuasion. Authoritarianism has become very popular online these days for some reason. Giving in to fear and wanting total control are always going to be traits that pop up again and then humans have to relearn from history about why freedoms are important.

Yes, although fascism is probably a proper word to use here -- it comes from Roman "fasces", symbolizes power to punish king's subjects (i.e. it's not about other states and kings, but about internal affairs).

You chose to use fascist technology. If you're scared by the potential for your state to exercise the same power your OEM has, then stop buying from that OEM. Regulate shitty security models, demand transparency for opaque systems. Switch to honest and open alternatives that trust you with freedom and power.

Or, reap your fascist just deserts. Why the hell should I waste my time calling Apple a fascist if I haven't daily-driven one of their devices in a decade? You want us to protest, standing arm-in-arm with you against Apple? You wanted this, you told yourself Apple was a secure business.

The only person who insists on using technology that coddles it's user is you.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#404
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which countries would you hold up as exemplars of free speech?

I would not hold up any country because there are flaws everywhere; and I don't like writing about free speech because it has different meanings for everyone. But even in our puny Slovakia raiding newspaper offices and taking peoples private data at the border is not something that would happen and didn't happen for at least the last 25 years or so, even though we had and currently have horribly bad governments. The…

There's some truth in what you say, but it's filtered through a distorted lens.

Like many countries, the UK government makes the laws and the courts interpret them. The government can't ignore the courts, but can introduce new legislation.

The UK population leans more conservative than many other European countries, but free speech, for the most part, has broad public support. There's a lot of discussion around where the line should be drawn, however, and the government tends toward a more restrictive interpretation, while the opposition tends to oppose censorship.

There is a strong element of class in the UK, but this is often misinterpreted. Class in the UK is not particularly fluid. You can have power and wealth, and still not be considered upper class. In the current government, only a minority of MPs are upper class, and of the current cabinet, only one attended a private school (a typical indicator of being upper-class).

The raiding of the Guardian over the Snowden leaks was justified as recovering stolen national security information, and was widely (and rightly) criticised by the press at the time. It's not a common occurrence.

Now, I don't mean to justify the UK government's behaviour. The government bows to the whims of GHCQ far more than it should do, particularly on any technological issue, where it seems GHCQ is the only one ever consulted. Obviously putting backdoors in messaging software, or raiding newpapers, is both incredible stupid and has ultimately lead to the UK government backing down.

But that, I think, is the important part - that it backed down. The UK has a lot of flaws, and certainly isn't at the top of the press freedom list, but it's also consistently in the upper quartile (and notably above Slovakia, if you want a reference point). Looking from the outside, you see the exceptions and controversies - the parts where the system fails - which makes it easy to get a distorted picture of the situation.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's a properly implemented end-to-end encryption, then NSA cannot see anything, even having full access to telco-s.

> if the target uses iCloud backup, the encryption keys should also be provided with content return https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21114562/jan-2021-fbi...

That is from before opt-in end-to-end encryption was added for iCloud backups.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do not . There are so many caveats in relevant part of the human rights act. > The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder…

Speech is a form of expression; freedom of expression encompasses freedom of speech. To quote from the link you provided: "This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers." As you point out, all countries have some restrictions on speech. We can obviously agree that somewhere like North Korea has no…

No freedom of expression is a nebulous term that was invented obfuscate the very discussion we are having. It consider it to be nothing more than weasel words.

Pointing at extreme examples like North Korea and pretending their isn't an issue because we are better them is classic whataboutism.

I also don't care about what some random index that people pull out of their backsides. I care about the legality. Freedom of Speech in the US is enshrined in the constitution. It is not enshrined anywhere in UK law.

As for the section you quoted, that is made effectively moot by the exceptions that I originally quoted.

Generally I am pretty tired of people engaging in apologia for the British state.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#407
post #102

> Apple did not respond to a request for comment. “We have never built a back door or master key to any of our products, and we never will,” Apple said in February. This must be some "technically correct" weasel words bullcrap, as without at least equivalent access there is no chance Apple would be operating in China.

I mean they just disabled advanced data protection which allowed normal law enforcement requests to access the data since they are not e2e encrypted if you don't use advanced data protection. I really don't think they needed to implement a new backdoor. They would just need implement a procedure that would fast track UK requests.

Apple didn't disable advanced data protection for those who had enabled it. Rather they removed the ability for new users to turn it on in the first place.

A future update was going to ask users themselves to disable it in order to continue backing up their phones to iCloud.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, although fascism is probably a proper word to use here -- it comes from Roman "fasces", symbolizes power to punish king's subjects (i.e. it's not about other states and kings, but about internal affairs).

You chose to use fascist technology. If you're scared by the potential for your state to exercise the same power your OEM has, then stop buying from that OEM. Regulate shitty security models, demand transparency for opaque systems. Switch to honest and open alternatives that trust you with freedom and power. Or, reap your fascist just deserts. Why the hell should I waste my time calling Apple a fascist if I haven't d…

So rollover and accept it and try to silo my life to please fascists and not complain and vote against it (where possible)? No thank you.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#409
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a big deal though? Context matters. Everyone knows you don't do business in China without bending a knee to the government in all things. If you don't you are shut down completely if you're lucky, imprisoned if not. Of course CCP has access to every device in China approaching very close to 100%

What are you saying, I'm in China it's completely false. There is very lax enforcement, and if there is enforcement, there's always an opportunity to bribe. The communist party doesn't have "access" to a billion phones: what would they even do with all that garbage. They can ask Wechat what you send your friends, sure, and that's enough to police most crimes. We don't have the budget or organizational acumen of the N…

Access != "saving it all, all the time" . If they determine you are an anti-CCP agent then they will get access to everything in your life, no warrants or requests involved.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You chose to use fascist technology. If you're scared by the potential for your state to exercise the same power your OEM has, then stop buying from that OEM. Regulate shitty security models, demand transparency for opaque systems. Switch to honest and open alternatives that trust you with freedom and power. Or, reap your fascist just deserts. Why the hell should I waste my time calling Apple a fascist if I haven't d…

So rollover and accept it and try to silo my life to please fascists and not complain and vote against it (where possible)? No thank you.

Apple told you that you don't have a choice. Why is that so upsetting now but not when you bought their products?
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