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I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

mcsweeneys.net

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Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#401
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are these cheap cost of living and high job availability places? How do you rent a place in a city you've likely never been, without a job already lined up, presumedly no money for a deposit? What do you do when you realize this cheap cost of living place pretty much demands a car to be livable?

Pretty much anything is better than sleeping on the street. Why would you choose to let your last money run out and then you're stuck somewhere where if you have no reasonable way to afford rent on a low paying job. For instance, move to Cleveland Ohio. Median home price is $173k. Rent is also cheap. I don't know, make it work. Whats the alternative? Stay in a city and sleep on the street because you don't want to fi…

The rich cities that are too expensive to live in are often the ones that provide the most benefits to the homeless, both legal and illegal. Anything from free or discounted food, medical care, laundry, charitable organizations, people who give money to panhandlers, lenient law enforcement, less violent crime, better weather, and easier targets to steal from.

Not to mention your entire support network and your friends are still there.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#402
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Near a highway there is so much noise for homes though, I'm always shocked people find that acceptable. I checked a home near a highway and I couldn't even open the window due to the noise

Depends on what you count as 'near'. Adjacent to, yeah, it's noisy. Highway noise travels, but not that far. Textured walls and trees and bushes help reduce the distance that noise travels as well.

Oh sure, the places I'm talking about were maybe 100m from two highways. It was insane. I can't even imagine the amount of dust and air pollution you get in your home by opening the window

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#403
post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not sure anyone said this It's literally what the person I was responding to said: >>But here in California every state law deregulating real estate development has been abused by developers to build more $2M-$3M houses. >>This does NOTHING to help homelessness... Given the Prop 13 tax environment. Building expensive homes is a necessary condition to facilitate local tax revenues necessary to build public housing. I…

>It's literally what the person I was responding to saidz This is funny, I literally quoted the exact line you quoted. In good faith, let me perfectly clear: As I said in my previous comment and you requoted: Their original comment said it does nothing to help homelessness (my emphasis, again). They did not claim it does absolutely nothing at all to help the housing pool in some little way, which I believe are the wo…

I appreciate the response.

Also in good faith. My entire point is that housing is an ecosystem. To say that "homelessness" is somehow independent of this housing ecosystem is to focus on the blemish, not the disease.

If we literally build enough houses to house the current homeless people and did nothing else, in a few years time we would have more homeless people to house.

>Somehow though the luxury homes that were promised are always built, but if anything fails to materialize it's the affordable housing that was promised--the very thing the high-end homes were supposed to finance.

I mean, this is an easy thing to say, but is a very complicated in actuality, and I go to the meetings in SF and I know exactly what is happening.

The "luxury homes", really, mostly just market-rate homes (if you want real luxury homes in San Francisco, go to Pacific Heights where you will bay $10M, not $1.5M), they are allowed to be built, and the vast majority of the do have deed restricted "affordable" homes attached, these are quickly distributed via lottery. However, one of the reason why these "luxury" homes are so expensive as that the costs of those deed restricted homes must be included in the market rate homes. This is just how it's done in CA.

The public housing in SF is constantly plagued by both funding problems and political problems. The funding problems are mainly that (1) for the reasons in Ezra Klein's Abundance, since they are public projects, the cost at least twice as much to build as private developments, and (2) the cities promising these homes have not secured funding when the promises are made, and finally (3) while financing is being secured, the spaces get put to alternative use that local residence value and then when it comes time to actually build the housing, it is not politically viable because they residents will lose the fun thing they have had since the project started.

I feel I don't need to explain point (1) because Ezra Klein literally just wrote a book about it.

Point (2) is just a regular part of politics, and in SF it's an insane political position, where the Progressive candidates both promise housing without securing financing and then blame Moderate politicians (especially at the state level) for not carving out state funding for SF specific projects. This is just good politics when you're looking for a villain, because you get to win both with the promises, and the broken promises. It's also the reason I kick and scream so much about how actual luxury housing is extremely effective at bringing in new revenues for public housing because even with insane laws like Prop 13 that are slowly starving our cities of tax revenue, building new, dense high cost housing dramatically increases revenues that can be used to develop public housing that can otherwise not be built. Talk is cheap, tying new property tax revenue to public housing development actually gets things done.

Point (3) refers to the iconic failure that is San Francisco's "Biergarten" housing site. The city delayed development of the housing site, and leased the land for alternative use, in this case, the Biergarten outdoor bar was started and became successful. Fifteen years later there is no housing and the bar is still there. Why? Because closing the bar to build housing, public or otherwise, is too politically unpopular now because while the housing is needed, it is effectively a net loss for existing residents. I specifically fought against a similar proposal for 730 Stanyan public housing project at neighborhood meetings where residents were kicking and screaming that we should put the land to "good use" while the development stalled, specifically because the site was promised for housing without any financing in place. Thankfully the proposals were rejected, and the public housing project will soon be open to the public.

I'm extremely passionate about housing policy. Housing should be approaching the cost of production of housing, like in Vienna. Instead, because we treat housing as a kind of piecemeal project where the whole goal is to solve some specific need, we miss the point entirely. We should be building as much housing as is practically possible, specifically to drive the cost of housing as close to the cost of production. We can have aesthetic concerns here, but folks who want low density should not be rent-seeking in major cities. That's exactly what suburban environments are there to serve. If we care about the welfare of our middle-class, lower-classes, and homeless, we need to prioritize every aspect of the housing ecosystem, and the means we must build luxury housing to fund public housing. We should be approving every single luxury housing project.

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Biergarten project background (from 2015!): https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/housing-crisis-pits-hayes-va...

Similar proposal from HANC for 730 Stanyan: https://www.hanc-sf.org/meetings/24-home/623-hanc-continues-...

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#404

UK has a chronic shortage of houses, as in, if you count the people in the country and how many houses you need, that's a bigger number than what you've got. Building in the UK is also hard. England, which is like 90% of the population, is very densely inhabited. Cities are sprawling, their road and transit infrastructure barely support their current size, never mind bigger population. Plus, with the housing bubble,…

Building new towns is hard because you need jobs nearby and there's no guarantee they'll materialize to a large enough degree to support the town. I'm wondering if it's okay to have the government take over properties that are simply poor uses of land even if the owners don't want to sell?

> Building new towns is hard because you need jobs nearby and there's no guarantee they'll materialize to a large enough degree to support the town.

There's an Australian quote from the 80s I can't recall the source of right now, but it's something along the lines of "we're a country of people serving each other flat whites", indicating that the primary spend in economy is local service based.

I suspect that's true in most western countries - cafes, supermarkets, dog grooming services, dentists, hairdressers, etc. Many jobs exist where people are, and if a new suburb or city were to crop up, commercial areas would be planned and a smart council could incentivise by discounting rent for the first X years or similar programs.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#405
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prison abolition Can we stop calling reform abolishment? I know it's more fun to call it abolishment because it triggers the people you disagree with, but it's entirely counter-productive. I'm just getting so tired of these constant motte and bailey fallacies in US political discourse.

People use the word "abolition" not to trigger you but because it's the word they mean to use and because they explicitly don't believe in reform. You may not respect it enough to take it seriously, but it is a position that some socialists hold.

Oh I take it seriously and I also agree that in the US there's a large population that's sent to prison for no good reason, with almost no attention paid to rehabilitation and treatment.

However I have doubts that, when people who hold that position come to power, El Chapo will be walking free with no restrictions the next morning.

Some form of restriction of movement will be required for frequent violent offenders. You may abolish the old system since you believe it's rotten to the core and you may call whatever replaces it something other than prison, but it will still be prison.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi there! I live in the US. I am a leftist. I am in favor of prison abolition, universal basic income, massively increased taxation of the rich, and voting reform. Care to explain why I either don't count or don't really exist?

> prison abolition Can we stop calling reform abolishment? I know it's more fun to call it abolishment because it triggers the people you disagree with, but it's entirely counter-productive. I'm just getting so tired of these constant motte and bailey fallacies in US political discourse.

> Can we stop calling reform abolishment?

People talking about "prison abolition" aren't talking about reform when they do.

Some people talking about prison abolition (but far from all, or even the majority) might also be willing to accept reform as an intermediate step or compromise, and might engage in discussion about the shape of reform that might be acceptable in that role, but that's secondary too, and not the focus of, their advocacy for abolition.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#407
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People use the word "abolition" not to trigger you but because it's the word they mean to use and because they explicitly don't believe in reform. You may not respect it enough to take it seriously, but it is a position that some socialists hold.

Oh I take it seriously and I also agree that in the US there's a large population that's sent to prison for no good reason, with almost no attention paid to rehabilitation and treatment. However I have doubts that, when people who hold that position come to power, El Chapo will be walking free with no restrictions the next morning. Some form of restriction of movement will be required for frequent violent offenders.…

> However I have doubts that, when people who hold that position come to power, El Chapo will be walking free with no restrictions the next morning.

"Prison" (carceral punishment) does not encompass all possible restrictions on personal freedom and movement. Even in systems with carceral punishment, other restrictions on freedom and movement are used for some situations, that do not involve incarceration.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#408
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this take a lot but it's a very static take on homelessness. Yes, homeless people are often in a mental state where they are difficult to take care of. However, that doesn't mean they're homeless because they're mentally unstable. Often, the reason they are unstable is because they are homeless. Being on the street heavily exacerbates drug and mental health issues. Plenty of homeless people start out normal and…

There are two groups of homeless: the financially homeless, which can be helped by providing housing, and the unstable homeless (addicts or mentally ill) for whom housing will do nothing. The majority of homeless are the former; temporarily homeless due to inability to afford housing due to loss of income or increase in rent. But they're not the ones that make the evening news. The unstable homeless are the loud/visi…

My whole point is that there are not just these two groups. There is instead a pipeline of your group 1 into 2. Give people homes, cut off that pipeline.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#409
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College dorms seem to be able to solve this problem, so it should be doable for adults as well.

College dorms aren't full of mentally ill drug addicts. The population that lives on the streets has very little in common with students living in college dorms.

Law enforcement gaps are a different issue altogether

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of jobs are not decentralized and will not be for the foreseeable future. You cannot be a steelworker or waiter or actor from a home office or location that doesn't have high in-person demand for those things. There are countless reasons jobs are (and should be) concentrated around big cities. You are lucky and speaking from a position of privilege if this is not something you worry about.

This is not about me and so-called privileges. You forget the large amount of jobs in farming, handiwork, healthcare, and so on. There are certainly ways to decentralize through policies.

I didn't forget about any jobs. Sure, some jobs can be less centralized. But you said "There is no point in concentrating jobs around big cities". This is wrong and I corrected you.
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