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Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

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Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#401

Post by Jensson »

wwweston wrote: post #208
DrillShopper wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since when did universities care almost solely about renevnue and growth? Since endowments got huge.

That’s a magnifier but it shouldn’t be the cause; for that you need a shift in management culture from optimizing for academic missions to optimizing for careers/influence of management and trustees.

Large endowments causes that unless you have very strict rules around it like the Nobel prize endowment. You can see how every large charity starts to focus on growing larger rather than its mission, Mozilla is a good example of that.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#403

Post by wrp »

doug_durham wrote: post #234
math_dandy wrote: post #28

I teach math at a large university (30,000 students) and have also gone “back to the earth”, to pen-and-paper, proctored and exams. Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. The administration, however, doesn’t like this trend. They want all evaluation to be remote-friendly, so that the same course with the same evaluations can be given to students learning in person or enrolled online. Online enrollment is a huge…

Hand written essays are inherently ableist. I would be at a massive disadvantage. I grew up during the 60's, but handwriting was alway slow and error prone for me. As soon as I could use a word processor I blossomed. It's probably not as bad for mathematical derivations. I still do those by hand since they are more like drawing than expression.

I was a slow handwriter, too. I always did badly on in-class essay exams because I didn't have time to write all that I knew needed to be said. What saved my grade in those classes was good term papers.

Having had much occasion to consider this issue, I would suggest moving away from the essay format. Most of the typical essay is fluff that serves to provide narrative cohesion. If knowledge of facts and manipulation of principles are what is being evaluated, presentation by bullet points should be sufficient.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#404

Post by intended »

nprateem wrote: post #337
thresher wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I teach computer science / programming, and I know what a good AI policy is: No AI. (Dramatic. AI is fine for upper-division courses, maybe. Absolutely no use for it in introductory courses.) Our school converted a computer lab to a programming lab. Computers in the lab have editors/compilers/interpreters, and whitelist documentation, plus an internal server for grading and submission. No internet access otherwise. W…

Is it in a Faraday cage too or do you just confiscate their phones. Or do you naively believe they aren't just using AI on their phones?

You should look at the cheating stories that come out of India, China, South Korea and other places that have been dealing with this dynamic for decades upon decades.

I know of a time where america didn’t have this problem and I could see it ramping up, because of my experience in India.

People will spend incredible efforts to cheat.

Like stories of parents or conspirators scaling buildings to whisper answers to students from windows.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#405

Post by intended »

gonzobonzo wrote: post #342
const_cast wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if we're noticing what people actually do, you'll realize close to zero people who want to pursue computer science are doing it on their own. And not due to a lack of information. The draw of education hasn't been access, not since the internet anyway. Structure, pacing, curriculum, schedule, and measurement cannot be recreated. I've had many people tell me they're going to learn to program online. Almost…

> Conversely, if we're noticing what people actually do, you'll realize close to zero people who want to pursue computer science are doing it on their own. That's not true though? Many people are trying to increase their CS skills through self-study. This topic even comes up a lot here, with people recommending the self-studying they've been doing in CS. > I've had many people tell me they're going to learn to progra…

Mooc completion rates hovered at single degree percents.

The vast majority of people do not complete.

The people who do complete are outliers. I suppose we can build for outliers, but then most people are just going to be ignored in this system, and if they have way to respond (vote), they won’t be happy about it.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#407

Post by doctorwho42 »

aketchum wrote: post #375
aaplok wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. Those I ask are unanimously horrified that this is the choice they are given. They are devastated that the degree for which they are working hard is becoming worthless yet they all assert they don't want exams back. Many of them are neurodivergent who do miserably in exam conditions and in contrast excel in open tasks that allow them to explore, so my sample is biased but…

It is always interesting to me when people say they are "bad test takers". You mean you are bad at the part where we find out how much you know? Maybe you just don't know the material well enough. caveat emptor - I am not ND so maybe this is a real concern for some, but in my experience the people who said this did not know the material. And the accommodations for tests are abused by rich kids more than they are util…

As a self proclaimed bad test taker, it's not that I don't know the information. It's that I am capable of second guessing myself in a particular way in which I can build a logical framework to suggest another direction or answer.

This presents itself as a bad test taker, I rarely ever got above a B+ on any difficult test material. But you put me in a lab, and that same skillset becomes a major advantage.

Minds come in a variety of configurations, id suggest considering that before taking your own experience as the definitive.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#408

Post by RobinL »

fn-mote wrote: post #87
lolinder wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the best professors I had either did not grade homework or weighted it very small and often on a did-you-do-it-at-all basis and did not grade attendance at all. They provided lectures and assignments as a means to learn the material and then graded you based on your performance in proctored exams taken either in class or at the university testing center. For most subjects at the university level graded homewor…

> rather than giving them the flexibility they deserve as grown adults I have had so many very frustrating conversations with full grown adults in charge of teaching CS. I have no faith at all that students would be able to choose an appropriate method of study. My issue with the instruction is the very narrow belief in the importance of certain measurable skills. VERY narrow. I won’t go into details, for my own sani…

When hiring, I would very much like to hire people who have figured out how to learn things for themselves using whatever techniques work for them, and don't need nannying.

So I'm perfectly happy with a system of higher education that strongly rewards this behaviour

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#409

Post by intended »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #229

My essay-writing process for my MBA was: - decide what I wanted to say about the subject, from the set of opinions I already possess - search for enough papers that could support that position. Don't read the papers, just scan the abstracts. - write the essay. Scan the reference papers for the specific bit of it that best supported the point I want to make. There was zero learning involved in this process. The produc…

I’m sorry for that.

May I ask a different question, why didn’t, or what stoped, you from engaging with the material itself ?

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#410

Post by brookst »

stackedinserter wrote: post #390
datadrivenangel wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did once have a Physics lecturer say " When I took Quantum Mechanics back in my undergrad, I got an A but didn't actually understand anything" and then in the same lecture 20 minutes later: "What part of this do you not understand?" when the entire class was just blankly looking at the whiteboard.

Seriously, what so non-understandable in first 20 minutes of QM?

Probably depends on how it’s explained, no?

I could make arithmetic incomprehensible, let alone QM.

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