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Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

telegraph.co.uk

401–410 of 1001 posts

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#401
post #60
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the other way around: a few decades ago people retired only a few years earlier, had 5-10 years of retirement and then died. Now people live way longer, but the retirement age never got adjusted properly to the new reality. So 15-20 years of retirement is the new normal. In addition, way fewer young payers for the now old.

Sure. But is that the society we want to live in. Do we not have ambitions to have people work less, enjoy what little life they have more? I'm not saying this is an economically easy problem to solve, but we focus so much on economics and so little on policies that make people happy.

Drugs make people happy. It's not the state's job to define happiness for its people, it s there to manage the economy so they can find the happiness they like.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#402
post #206

There is an obvious solution to the problem of ageing population and declining birth rates. Furthermore, it's a solution everybody's secret soul wants very much: keep people younger for longer. Invent rejuvenation. But politicians would never dare go in front of cameras and say that they will put a dollar into R&D for such an outcome, because the wall of insults and disdain we would hurl, for no rational reason, at t…

That's because it has no guaranteed outcomes and it's just a big bet. It's not a "solution" until it's proven to work. If you bet on some unproven tech to save you in the future and that never materialises then as a country you're fucked. So the disdain and contempt would be 100% earned towards towards anyone who would seriously suggest betting the future of society on some unproven technology. Only techbros would ever suggest something so profoundly out of touch with reality.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is that saying the problem is birth rates is misguided. Surely we have enough labor to provide for the elderly, why can’t our economy be structured to get this labor to the people who need it?

Do we have enough labor? At least in the US there has been a shortage of elderly care workers. And even if we didn't, what does it mean, concretely, to structure the economy to get the labor to those who mean it?

> least in the US there has been a shortage of elderly care workers

Well yeah, because it's difficult, taxing, often traumatic work that pays the same as any other nursing job with a higher QoL and social status. And even then they're pushing out all the actual nursing staff that pays well in favor of MAs/CNAs who get paid like shit.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet they all have to work like idiots until they're 70, whether they like it or not. I feel they could do better than that with all this wealth.

People are living longer. Demographically there are fewer younger people to support them. Something has to give.

Yes ,what has to give is a tiny fraction of the corporate and individual wealth hoarded by the richest and most powerful members of society.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#405
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark, you also have to have a medical exam to maintain your drivers license after you turn 70, but they have no problem with carpenters running around on roofs until they're 74.

Well you normally don't kill someone else if you fall off a roof. Running a car at highway speeds into something or someone else has a much higher chance of injuring or killing multiple people besides the driver.

So that's the plan ? Make sure enough people die before reaching retirement age ?

My point is, if you're unfit to drive a vehicle due to cognitive or physical decline, you're probably also unfit for most jobs involving those skills, and yet you have to soldier on for 4 more years.

What happens when they're putting a new roof on a building next to a crowded street, and the 73 year old carpenter drops a bunch of tiles to the ground 6 floors below ? or he falls and slips off, taking another colleague with him ? Or he simply operates heavy machinery somewhere and gets caught in it.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#407
post #250

[flagged]

> That’s what happens when nations like Denmark and Sweden with extensive social wellfare system, does not grow organically and instead allow people to invade their countries and let them use the system without giving anything back. I am pretty sure that immigrants pay taxes.

Some immigrants do a great job but way too many have no interest in integrating nor working, they are perfectly happy with getting money and social healthcare without giving anything back. They even get enough money to send to relatives not able to leave their shitty countries.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#408

Seems the US will have to do this soon. Just very very unpopular. Not sure which party will actually pull the trigger.

The US may have to raise the retirement age eventually but it could put off needing to do so for a long time by making the payroll tax flat instead of regressive. Currently here is the percent various workers pay:

  Income     Tax
    $10k     6.2%
    $50k     6.2%
    $100k    6.2%
    $150k    6.2%
    $200k    5.4%
    $300k    3.6%
    $700k    1.6%
   $1000k    1.1%
   $5000k    0.22%
  $10000k    0.11%
This comes about because it is structured as a two bracket tax rate:

         Bracket     Marginal Rate
       $0 - $176100    6.2%
  $176101 - ∞          0%
Just make it 6.2% across the board and it will push off the need for further major reforms far enough to largely get past the peak in Boomer retirements which are happening now. Maybe gradually raise the rate from 6.2% (which has not changed since 1990) to 7.2% to be safe.

Once Boomers pass through the system and start dying off in significant numbers over the next 10-30 years there won't be any size differences between successive generations nearly as large. Gen X is smaller than Millennials, then Gen Z is between Gen X and Millennials in size, and the current generation is projected to be around the same size is Gen Z. This should make it considerably easier to keep the system working.

Polls show [1][2] that this approach (flat rate + 1% gradual rate increase) is the solution voters prefer by a large majority regardless of party affiliation when presented with all the solutions that have been proposed by politicians and experts.

Generally whenever Democrats in Congress introduce bills to address the problem this is the approach they go for, although sometimes they talk about keeping a lower marginal rate for people making between $176100 and $400000, like this:

         Bracket     Marginal Rate
       $0 - $176100    6.2%
  $176101 - $400000     0%
  $400001 - ∞          6.2%
Republicans in Congress do not really have a coherent approach to this. There's a powerful group in the House called the Republican Study Committee, which is a large conservative caucus of around 190 members (~85% of House Republicans). They are the ones setting Republican policy in Congress on this issue.

According to them there are only three ways to fix Social Security: some combination of (1) raise the money it takes in, (2) reduce the amount it pays out, and (3) make up for any shortfall by paying some benefits out of the general budget.

They also say that #1 and #3 are off the table. Their proposals generally go for #2 via raising the retirement age. That does buy some time but not much, and runs into the problem that the Republican Party Platform says (caps in original) "FIGHT FOR AND PROTECT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE WITH NO CUTS, INCLUDING NO CHANGES TO THE RETIREMENT AGE", and Trump also keeps saying that which doesn't leave them any options.

[1] https://www.aarp.org/social-security/survey-raising-taxes/

[2] https://www.nasi.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/NASI_SocialS...

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#409
This is truly sad. As a Swede I fear my country may follow suite. The retirement age in Sweden used to be 65 and now it's 67.

Looking at older people around me, most lead a much less active life after 75. So, if we were lucky we used to have some 10 good years of doing whatever we wanted before old age and age-related diseases start affecting us so much we become limited to a much smaller world. But now we have maybe eight years and if we follow Denmark, five years.

I think if you've put in 40-45 years for the man, you should be allowed to have some good 10 years for yourself. Travel, play golf, cross a continent in a camper or climb a mountain.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#410

Why is this generating so much discussion? Implicitly, retirement age is not a constant but a function of several factors. This was inevitable and of course, it will increase several times over our lifespan.

because it seems like at 70 people won't be productive, hence the assumptions that humans are made of steel and retirement can stretch like rubber fail.
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