Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s the other way around: a few decades ago people retired only a few years earlier, had 5-10 years of retirement and then died. Now people live way longer, but the retirement age never got adjusted properly to the new reality. So 15-20 years of retirement is the new normal. In addition, way fewer young payers for the now old.
Sure. But is that the society we want to live in. Do we not have ambitions to have people work less, enjoy what little life they have more? I'm not saying this is an economically easy problem to solve, but we focus so much on economics and so little on policies that make people happy.
Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
401–410 of 1001 posts
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#402There is an obvious solution to the problem of ageing population and declining birth rates. Furthermore, it's a solution everybody's secret soul wants very much: keep people younger for longer. Invent rejuvenation. But politicians would never dare go in front of cameras and say that they will put a dollar into R&D for such an outcome, because the wall of insults and disdain we would hurl, for no rational reason, at t…
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
My take is that saying the problem is birth rates is misguided. Surely we have enough labor to provide for the elderly, why can’t our economy be structured to get this labor to the people who need it?
Do we have enough labor? At least in the US there has been a shortage of elderly care workers. And even if we didn't, what does it mean, concretely, to structure the economy to get the labor to those who mean it?
Well yeah, because it's difficult, taxing, often traumatic work that pays the same as any other nursing job with a higher QoL and social status. And even then they're pushing out all the actual nursing staff that pays well in favor of MAs/CNAs who get paid like shit.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet they all have to work like idiots until they're 70, whether they like it or not. I feel they could do better than that with all this wealth.
People are living longer. Demographically there are fewer younger people to support them. Something has to give.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Denmark, you also have to have a medical exam to maintain your drivers license after you turn 70, but they have no problem with carpenters running around on roofs until they're 74.
Well you normally don't kill someone else if you fall off a roof. Running a car at highway speeds into something or someone else has a much higher chance of injuring or killing multiple people besides the driver.
My point is, if you're unfit to drive a vehicle due to cognitive or physical decline, you're probably also unfit for most jobs involving those skills, and yet you have to soldier on for 4 more years.
What happens when they're putting a new roof on a building next to a crowded street, and the 73 year old carpenter drops a bunch of tiles to the ground 6 floors below ? or he falls and slips off, taking another colleague with him ? Or he simply operates heavy machinery somewhere and gets caught in it.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#406Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#407[flagged]
> That’s what happens when nations like Denmark and Sweden with extensive social wellfare system, does not grow organically and instead allow people to invade their countries and let them use the system without giving anything back. I am pretty sure that immigrants pay taxes.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#408Seems the US will have to do this soon. Just very very unpopular. Not sure which party will actually pull the trigger.
Income Tax
$10k 6.2%
$50k 6.2%
$100k 6.2%
$150k 6.2%
$200k 5.4%
$300k 3.6%
$700k 1.6%
$1000k 1.1%
$5000k 0.22%
$10000k 0.11%
This comes about because it is structured as a two bracket tax rate: Bracket Marginal Rate
$0 - $176100 6.2%
$176101 - ∞ 0%
Just make it 6.2% across the board and it will push off the need for further major reforms far enough to largely get past the peak in Boomer retirements which are happening now. Maybe gradually raise the rate from 6.2% (which has not changed since 1990) to 7.2% to be safe.Once Boomers pass through the system and start dying off in significant numbers over the next 10-30 years there won't be any size differences between successive generations nearly as large. Gen X is smaller than Millennials, then Gen Z is between Gen X and Millennials in size, and the current generation is projected to be around the same size is Gen Z. This should make it considerably easier to keep the system working.
Polls show [1][2] that this approach (flat rate + 1% gradual rate increase) is the solution voters prefer by a large majority regardless of party affiliation when presented with all the solutions that have been proposed by politicians and experts.
Generally whenever Democrats in Congress introduce bills to address the problem this is the approach they go for, although sometimes they talk about keeping a lower marginal rate for people making between $176100 and $400000, like this:
Bracket Marginal Rate
$0 - $176100 6.2%
$176101 - $400000 0%
$400001 - ∞ 6.2%
Republicans in Congress do not really have a coherent approach to this. There's a powerful group in the House called the Republican Study Committee, which is a large conservative caucus of around 190 members (~85% of House Republicans). They are the ones setting Republican policy in Congress on this issue.According to them there are only three ways to fix Social Security: some combination of (1) raise the money it takes in, (2) reduce the amount it pays out, and (3) make up for any shortfall by paying some benefits out of the general budget.
They also say that #1 and #3 are off the table. Their proposals generally go for #2 via raising the retirement age. That does buy some time but not much, and runs into the problem that the Republican Party Platform says (caps in original) "FIGHT FOR AND PROTECT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE WITH NO CUTS, INCLUDING NO CHANGES TO THE RETIREMENT AGE", and Trump also keeps saying that which doesn't leave them any options.
[1] https://www.aarp.org/social-security/survey-raising-taxes/
[2] https://www.nasi.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/NASI_SocialS...
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#409Looking at older people around me, most lead a much less active life after 75. So, if we were lucky we used to have some 10 good years of doing whatever we wanted before old age and age-related diseases start affecting us so much we become limited to a much smaller world. But now we have maybe eight years and if we follow Denmark, five years.
I think if you've put in 40-45 years for the man, you should be allowed to have some good 10 years for yourself. Travel, play golf, cross a continent in a camper or climb a mountain.
Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70
#410Why is this generating so much discussion? Implicitly, retirement age is not a constant but a function of several factors. This was inevitable and of course, it will increase several times over our lifespan.