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Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

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Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#401

Post by yencabulator »

regularization wrote: post #265
radicalbyte wrote: post #26

This is a strategic move: it makes it easier to move weapons within Europe and makes it much harder for Russia should they invade. Ideally you would want to do this all over Europe.

> makes it much harder for Russia should they invade If taking over Finland would help Russia, why didn't it do so in 1945 when it was there for the taking, to little protest from the UK and US? Russian had no use for it then, or now, other than the Karelian isthmus, which is part of Russia. Russia didn't raise much protest of Finland joining NATO. These notions of Russia having designs on Finland are loony.

"For the taking" when Russia had already suffered some 1.3 million casualties from Finland alone.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#402

Post by yencabulator »

lukan wrote: post #140
Akronymus wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't they build something similar to the eurotunnel but with denmark and sweden?

There is a bridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98resund_Bridge And more tunnels are getting build. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_fixed_link

That bridge is going to be incredibly easy to destroy, should a big enough country wish that. And it definitely isn't going to be rebuilt quickly enough to matter for a war.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#403

Post by yencabulator »

lukan wrote: post #114
andriamanitra wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that but it is still economic: I highly doubt fixing a minor delay in material movement is the most effective use of these billions.

It is not a minor delay and in case of war such a delay can easily cost billions. And if there isn't a war, the benefits of a interconnected and integrated european railwail network are potentially huge. 300 km/h trains connecting Finnland with Spain with no delay or bumps? That would be something.

> 300 km/h trains connecting Finnland with Spain with no delay or bumps?

Have you seen a map of the region?

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#404

Post by reaperducer »

crote wrote: post #356
Suppafly wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The tolerances are just a bit tighter, the risks and liabilities are higher, and the workforce just isn't "there" Sure, but they do it with big machines that ride down the rails now instead of lining up thousands of men with sledge hammers.

There are no ready-made gauge changing machines, though. Not exactly a big market for those.

There are no ready-made gauge changing machines, though. Not exactly a big market for those.

So what? I'd there isn't a machine, you build one.

Large industries like mining and shipping and the military don't just stop because they can't buy a needed item off the shelf because there isn't a market for it. They build stuff all the time.

I worked in a factory for a few years, and can tell you that if industries followed your "can't do" attitude, commerce would stop.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#405

Post by lukan »

yencabulator wrote: post #402
lukan wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a bridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98resund_Bridge And more tunnels are getting build. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_fixed_link

That bridge is going to be incredibly easy to destroy, should a big enough country wish that. And it definitely isn't going to be rebuilt quickly enough to matter for a war.

With nukes, you can destroy anything. Otherwise the kerch bridge is still standing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Bridge

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#406

Post by yencabulator »

lukan wrote: post #405
yencabulator wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That bridge is going to be incredibly easy to destroy, should a big enough country wish that. And it definitely isn't going to be rebuilt quickly enough to matter for a war.

With nukes, you can destroy anything. Otherwise the kerch bridge is still standing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Bridge

Russia does not want that bridge to fall. Ukraine likely does but wasn't able to execute (outside of artillery range by now, limited access to long-range missiles, utter lack of sea power in the area, failure to anticipate circumstances enough to take it out while they still had control over area). All other countries are trying to not get involved, including not selling Ukraine (many) long-distance high destructive power missiles.

I wouldn't generalize from that to "nobody could destroy a bridge".

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#407

Post by john-h-k »

detaro wrote: post #89
john-h-k wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t OBB Railjet trains travel at 230km/h?

Australia, not Austria ;)

Wow not even a verbal slip up I literally read Australia as Austria. Equally impressed and horrified with myself

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#408

Post by mr_toad »

Reason077 wrote: post #291
stuaxo wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a few lines with decent guages. At almost every election before this version of Labour got in, the Tories would promise all sorts of rail projects then immediately cancel them after the election. One project was a goods "spine" (all projects were "spines" at this point), that invovled improving the loading guage from Southampton upwards. For routes where this happened I don't see why we couldn't upgrade the s…

> "For routes where this happened I don't see why we couldn't upgrade the stations to a bigger loading guage and have double decker trains." The costs would be high and the benefits negligible. Where more capacity is required, it's typically easier to lengthen existing trains, or run more trains, than to go adapting stations and building new unique double-decker trains that are only going to be compatible with a spec…

Presumably you could use them on longer direct routes. London to Edinburgh non-stop is 4.5 hours, so a bit of extra time at each end wouldn’t make much difference.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#409

Post by jcranmer »

vintermann wrote: post #392
jcranmer wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you're really saying here, is that Russians are fundamentally different people than you, because they fall for any dumb propaganda, whereas you don't. No, I don't read that at all. There's plenty of Russian propaganda that Westerners have fallen for hook, line, and sinker, chief among them the idea that all Russian speakers are actually Russian and want to be a part of the Russia. The point is that the propaga…

> No, I don't read that at all. There's plenty of Russian propaganda that Westerners have fallen for hook, line, and sinker, chief among them the idea that all Russian speakers are actually Russian and want to be a part of the Russia. Oh yeah, other westerners, but not you. You take the foreign policy think tank line that Russians actually want to be balkanized. Just after saying that Putin has succeeded in brainwash…

Given the ample reporting of Russian speakers in places like Odesa switching to speaking in Ukrainian as a result of the 2022 invasion to distance themselves from Russia, or the difficulty the Russian occupiers of Ukraine has had in finding people willing to work for them, or the fact that the current president of Ukraine is himself a Russian-speaking Ukrainian, or the fact that in the 1991 referendum, a majority of people in every Ukrainian oblast (including Crimea!) supported being a part of Ukraine rather than Russia, I don't think it's that hard to say what the general appetite of Russian-speaking Ukrainians becoming part of Russia is.

Or, to use an analogy with a different language, Putin's argument is akin to saying that a majority of Irishman want to be a part of England, because they speak English.

Don't confuse language for cultural identity.

(And, FWIW, I have fallen for this propaganda in the past; I've just been successfully educated since then as to why the simplistic linguistic map is fundamentally the wrong way to look at the conflict.)

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#410

Post by fanf2 »

wbl wrote: post #360
dehrmann wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes it even crazier that Bart would choose a non-standard gauge 75 years later. And now they're stuck paying for custom trains with less flexibility and longer lead times.

BART was always going to need custom trains for other reasons beyond track gauge. Electric third rail at those speeds isn't standard. 125kV pantagraph would mean big expensive tunnels and stations due to clearance requirements.

Third rail lines south of London often run at 90mph and up to 100mph in places. BART’s top speed is 80mph.
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