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Material 3 Expressive

design.google

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Re: Material 3 Expressive

#401

Post by lanyard-textile »

Ex-googler here. Yeesh :)

Not surprised to find this little nugget of googleyness: One of the experiments starts by internally asking Google designers for an opinion about their intents for a design, and basing further research off their answers.

https://m3.material.io/blog/testing-material-3

> We started by interviewing Google designers to ask what interfaces are intended to accomplish, and users to understand what they actually accomplish. One thing we learned from this process was how much apps use visual cues to communicate important information.

I get what they’re going for and they almost made a helpful feedback loop — but they involved their own noise in the research process, and that’s why we got something like this. It was doomed from the start.

Wonder how many Googlers were involved in the other 45 studies.

Also — if you’re age 65+ don’t worry about responding to a Google survey, your opinion about whether you favor an Expressive UI won’t make it to the final graph. :P

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#402

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

grishka wrote: post #166

Copying my tweet from 3 days ago: Can Google please lay off their entire design department already? I'm tired of redoing things in apps for the sake of them working the same but looking different. Android is a done product. It needs no further major updates.

We know what happens to "done" Google products though... they're going to keep making changes until Android goes away.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#403

Post by WorldMaker »

Octoth0rpe wrote: post #326
WorldMaker wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You like the Tailwind-based approaches? That's not the direction I would go either. I've never seen anything Tailwind-based not feel bloated. It's such interesting malicious compliance with "no inline-styles" lint rules by just moving the inline styles into the class field. I see the same problems, including variations on the same performance problems, I remember from the bad old jQuery days of everyone just smashing…

> You like the Tailwind-based approaches? There's two ways of answering this, but both amount to a yes 1) I certainly think much more highly of the recent plethora of tailwind based component libraries than the previous generation, which mostly don't require me to actually use tailwind directly (mantine, daisy). Component library developers seem to like it _a lot_, and the outcome is great. If they're happy to use ta…

Checking out the recommendations, out of curiosity, my first things that I notice:

- Mantine doesn't use Tailwind. It's overly React specific for many of its components that don't really need to be React components but could be Vanilla or Web Components, but it doesn't seem to be anything like the Tailwind approach.

- Daisy seems really funny to me because it seems the long way around to be a Vanilla CSS framework while still being too much Tailwind.

- (ShadCN is definitely the worst of both above things, utterly React-specific and taking the long way around from Tailwind back to things that resemble Vanilla CSS, only with extra React for React's sake)

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#404

Post by strongpigeon »

nkrisc wrote: post #338

Wow, I’m on my phone and the slight upwards motion that each paragraph does as it scrolls into view is almost instantly nauseating. I had to close the tab after reading only the first two paragraphs (and scrolling down the page to make sure I wasn’t hallucinating). First time I’ve had motion sickness from reading while not actually moving. Well done Google designers, that’s impressive. Reader mode to the rescue.

I hadn't noticed it the first time I read the post, mostly because I tend to "throw and catch" when scrolling on text. Went back and scrolled slowly. It's definitely motion-sickness inducing. Wow.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#405

Post by DrammBA »

sgt wrote: post #134
bflesch wrote: post #120

How did these clowns manage to make my mouse cursor laggy? It is incomprehensible for me to live in such a big bubble with such a big paycheck and then spend zero brainpower on systems without graphics acceleration. This is extremely bad engineering and these engineers should be called out for it. It takes a special kind of person to deliver this and be proud of it. Once they made their millions at Google these engin…

It's because the developers have extremely fast and graphics accelerated hardware. I can't notice any lag whatsoever on the mouse cursor on my M2 Pro but.. But a lot of folks won't have top end HW.

m1 pro using firefox, I can notice the cursor not being smooth, and if I move the mouse while scrolling then it lags hard

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#406

Post by tshaddox »

edoceo wrote: post #220
kiliancs wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also seemingly went out of their way to prevent ctrl/cmd+click on several anchor elements in pages like https://m3.material.io/components .

Arrreg!! So many of these React (et al) sites, with poorly re-built elements and break the built-in functionality! The A tag works perfect! But no, we need three or four nested divs, components, and many lines of JS to end up with something worse. Is React the driver? Do devs just not know? Is management pushing garbage?

With every client-side routing framework or library I know of, the trivial happy path will involve using their provided link component which performs client-side navigations on click but also renders an underlying anchor tag with href (and works with cmd-click, middle-click etc.).

You really have to go out of your way to break this, and I don't think client-side routers deserve any blame for this. Anyone who is ignorant or careless enough to ship broken links using a client-side router would be just as likely to break anchor tags with their own hand-rolled JavaScript.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#407

Post by hnuser123456 »

bflesch wrote: post #120

How did these clowns manage to make my mouse cursor laggy? It is incomprehensible for me to live in such a big bubble with such a big paycheck and then spend zero brainpower on systems without graphics acceleration. This is extremely bad engineering and these engineers should be called out for it. It takes a special kind of person to deliver this and be proud of it. Once they made their millions at Google these engin…

They had to add that 500ms of input latency to feel like you're really using Android.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#408

Post by sneilan1 »

bflesch wrote: post #120

How did these clowns manage to make my mouse cursor laggy? It is incomprehensible for me to live in such a big bubble with such a big paycheck and then spend zero brainpower on systems without graphics acceleration. This is extremely bad engineering and these engineers should be called out for it. It takes a special kind of person to deliver this and be proud of it. Once they made their millions at Google these engin…

I am on Debian linux with 128 GB of ram running the latest brave browser and the cursor lags for me also.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#409

Post by freedomben »

bsimpson wrote: post #389
freedomben wrote: post #234

I have two thoughts that keep jumping out at me from this. This criticism isn't meant solely for Material 3, but it does seem a good example. 1. Since the beginning of "mobile first" being rapidly shoved on us (and side-note, god our industry seems to love bandwagoning the new shiny stuff), I've noticed the slow but inevitable (with a northstar like that) decline and neglect of desktop interfaces. Viewing this websit…

This post explains the methodology: https://m3.material.io/blog/testing-material-3

Thank you, that's a helpful post.

Don't feel obligated, but if you're willing I'd be interested to hear more about the demographics of the sample. For example, how did you find the participants? How varied were their backgrounds? Was there an even distribution of tech and non-tech people? A mix of blue collar and white collar?

Lastly I do want to say that although some of the feedback has been harsh, I do think what you guys accomplished was impressive!

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#410

Post by johnfn »

edoceo wrote: post #220
kiliancs wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also seemingly went out of their way to prevent ctrl/cmd+click on several anchor elements in pages like https://m3.material.io/components .

Arrreg!! So many of these React (et al) sites, with poorly re-built elements and break the built-in functionality! The A tag works perfect! But no, we need three or four nested divs, components, and many lines of JS to end up with something worse. Is React the driver? Do devs just not know? Is management pushing garbage?

One of my pet peeves is people blaming things on React that have nothing to do with React. I see this quite frequently on Hacker News. Using an a tag or not has nothing to do with React.
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