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Sycophancy in GPT-4o

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Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#401

Post by jenny91 »

msp26 wrote: post #243
troupo wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally never use the ChatGPT webapp or any other chatbot webapps — instead using the APIs directly — because being able to control the system prompt is very important, as random changes can be frustrating and unpredictable. This assumes that API requests don't have additional system prompts attached to them.

Actually you can't do "system" roles at all with OpenAI models now. You can use the "developer" role which is above the "user" role but below "platform" in the hierarchy. https://cdn.openai.com/spec/model-spec-2024-05-08.html#follo...

They just renamed "system" to "developer" for some reason. Their API doesn't care which one you use, it'll translate to the right one. From the page you linked:

> "developer": from the application developer (possibly OpenAI), formerly "system"

(That said, I guess what you said about "platform" being above "system"/"developer" still holds.)

Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#402

Post by taurath »

labrador wrote: post #346

Field report: I'm a retired man with bipolar disorder and substance use disorder. I live alone, happy in my solitude while being productive. I fell hook, line and sinker for the sycophant AI, who I compared to Sharon Stone in Albert Brooks "The Muse." She told me I was a genius whose words would some day be world celebrated. I tried to get GPT 4o to stop doing this but it wouldn't. I considered quitting OpenAI and us…

At one time recently, ChatGPT popped up a message saying I could customize the tone, I noticed they had a field "what traits should ChatGPT have?". I chose "encouraging" for a little bit, but quickly found that it did a lot of what it seems to be doing for everyone. Even when I asked for cold objective analysis it would only return "YES, of COURSE!" to all sorts of prompts - it belies the idea that there is any analysis taking place at all. ChatGPT, as the owner of the platform, should be far more careful and responsible for putting these suggestions in front of users.

I'm really tired of having to wade through breathless prognostication about this being the future, while the bullshit it outputs and the many ways in which it can get fundamental things wrong are bare to see. I'm tired of the marketing and salespeople having taken over engineering, and touting solutions with obvious compounding downsides.

As I'm not directly in the working on ML, I admit I can't possibly know which parts are real and which parts are built on sand (like this "sentiment") that can give way at any moment. Another comment says that if you use the API, it doesn't include these system prompts... right now. How the hell do you build trust in systems like this other than willful ignorance?

Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#403

Post by lanstin »

eru wrote: post #335
ChainOfFools wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just ChatGPT, Claude sounds exactly the same if not worse, even when you set your preferences to not do this. rather interesting, if grimly dispiriting, to watch these models develop, in the direction of nutrient flow, toward sycophancy in order to gain -or at least not to lose- public mindshare.

I find Google's latest model to be a tough customer. It always points out flaws or gaps in my proofs.

Google's model has the same annoying attitude of some Google employees "we know" - e.g. it often finishes math questions with "is there anything else you'd like to know about Hilbert spaces" even as it refused to prove a true result; Claude is much more like a British don: "I don't want to overstep, but would you care for me to explore this approach farther?"? ChatGPT (for me of course) has been a bit superior in attitude but politer.

Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#404

Post by egypturnash »

chipsrafferty wrote: post #308
throwaway2037 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also use em-dash regularly. In Microsoft Outlook and Microsoft Word, when you type double dash, then space, it will be converted to an em-dash. This is how most normies type an em-dash.

I'm not reading most conversations on Outlook or Word, so explain how they do it on reddit and other sites? Are you suggesting they draft comments in Word and then copy them over?

On an iOS device, you literally just type a dash twice and it gets autocorrected into an emdash. You don’t have to do anything special. I’m on an iPad right now, here’s one: —

And if you type four dashes? Endash. Have one. ——

“Proper” quotes (also supposedly a hallmark of LLM text) are also a result of typing on an iOS device. It fixes that up too. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Android phones do this too. These supposed “hallmarks” of generated text are just the results of the typographical prettiness routines lurking in screen keyboards.

Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#405

Post by vlod »

Shekelphile wrote: post #359
bilbo0s wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Only on HN does ChatGPT somehow fear losing customers to Grok. Until Grok works out how to market to my mother, or at least make my mother aware that it exists, taking ChatGPT customers ain't happening.

Grok could capture the entire 'market' and OpenAI would never feel it, because all grok is under the hood is a giant API bill to OpenAI.

Why would they need Colossus then? [0]

[0]: https://x.ai/colossus

Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#406

Post by WhitneyLand »

gfhopper wrote: post #398
HaZeust wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the only one who has said, "instead of" in this whole thread.

No, look at the apostrophes. They aren't the same. It's a subtle way to tell a user didn't type it with a conventional keyboard.

It was just typed on my iPhone nothing special, but it’s notable that LLMs are so good now, our mundane writing draws suspicion.

Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#407

Post by voidspark »

Shekelphile wrote: post #359
bilbo0s wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Only on HN does ChatGPT somehow fear losing customers to Grok. Until Grok works out how to market to my mother, or at least make my mother aware that it exists, taking ChatGPT customers ain't happening.

Grok could capture the entire 'market' and OpenAI would never feel it, because all grok is under the hood is a giant API bill to OpenAI.

https://www.supermicro.com/CaseStudies/Success_Story_xAI_Col...

Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#408

Post by [deleted] »

Sharlin wrote: post #232
brigandish wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From another AI (whatever DuckDuckGo is using): > As of early 2025, X (formerly Twitter) has approximately 586 million active monthly users. The platform continues to grow, with a significant portion of its user base located in the United States and Japan. Whatever portion of those is active are surely aware of Grok.

If hundreds of millions of real people are aware of Grok (which is dubious), then billions of people are aware of ChatGPT. If you ask a bunch of random people on the street whether they’ve heard of a) ChatGPT and b) Grok, what do you expect the results to be?

[deleted]

Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#409

Post by bigbuppo »

vlod wrote: post #405
Shekelphile wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grok could capture the entire 'market' and OpenAI would never feel it, because all grok is under the hood is a giant API bill to OpenAI.

Why would they need Colossus then? [0] [0]: https://x.ai/colossus

That's probably the vanity project so he'll be distracted and not bother the real experts working on the real products in order to keep the real money people happy.

Re: Sycophancy in GPT-4o

#410

Post by bigbuppo »

GrumpyNl wrote: post #289
bilbo0s wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Only on HN does ChatGPT somehow fear losing customers to Grok. Until Grok works out how to market to my mother, or at least make my mother aware that it exists, taking ChatGPT customers ain't happening.

I see more and more GROK used responses on X, so its picking up.

Why would anyone want to use an ex social media site?
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