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Don't force your kids to do math

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Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#401

Post by maccard »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #188
maccard wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have kids. The really important part of this is that kids mimic what they see adults they like and respect doing. If their role models spend 6+ hours in front of the television every night, that’s what they’ll do. If their role models are playing music or sport, that’s what they’ll want to do.

Yes, but one of the problems with our civilization is that we typically do the important stuff out of our children's sight, and then come home tired and try to relax. So they do not naturally get a correct idea of what we do.

I don’t disagree with you. Parenting is hard, and some of the job is being a role model. If you show your kids the only way to relax is to beg in front of Netflix that’s what they’ll see. One of the nicest things I see on a weekday evening bfis kids with their parents at the driving range - it’s clearly 0 break for the parent, but the kids are usually having a great time doing what mom/dad like doing.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#402

Post by mrangle »

rerdavies wrote: post #166
laurent_du wrote: post #102

Very poor take. The author clearly has very limited experience with raising kids. Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. Playing music, learning to spell correctly, doing mathematics, and so on. A very small minority of kids will do all of that easily and for the fun, but you can't rely on it. If you don't push your kid to do their 20 minutes of piano every day, they will half-ass it and will sto…

The really important thing is to teach kids to find their joy. At the end of my second year of piano lessons, my teacher took me into her living room, and we listened to Glen Miller records for most of the hour. And then we had a cup of tea, and she told me, "this is the music that I love. I play piano because I love that music, and I want to be able to play it myself. What kind of music do you like?" I didn't really…

Not forcing kids to learn mathematics and not becoming great at mathematics until you discovered the joy in them are not remotely the same thing.

Not learning to write and not learning to write well until... are not remotely the same thing.

Kids are inherently joyful, unless they are abused. One doesn't have to teach kids to find joy.

Whereas an admonishment to "teach kids to find joy", aka: "do what you feel like" according to the article, rings true as detached from reality self-talk meant to make adults feel good about themselves. Its almost a class signal, that is a privilege signal. With varying results across classes.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#403

Post by acureau »

anal_reactor wrote: post #389
rerdavies wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really important thing is to teach kids to find their joy. At the end of my second year of piano lessons, my teacher took me into her living room, and we listened to Glen Miller records for most of the hour. And then we had a cup of tea, and she told me, "this is the music that I love. I play piano because I love that music, and I want to be able to play it myself. What kind of music do you like?" I didn't really…

> The really important thing is to teach kids to find their joy. As an adult, how can I find joy? I've been trying out various hobbies, but eventually, all of them became a chore. I really miss the feeling of fixating on something and getting lost in it, but it's not coming back. I'm so jealous of people who have a passion, because I just don't.

As a serial hobby-hopper myself, I have come to realize that anything worth doing is at times dull and tedious. Passion is not always intense joy, it's appreciating the highs and tolerating the lows. Don't get caught up chasing cheap thrills.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#404

Post by Izkata »

j45 wrote: post #45

Forcing is kind of hopeless. So is logic, and reasoning. How children learn (they can't rely on a fully formed prefrontal cortex like adults) is very different than how adults learn (no fully developed prefrontal cortex until 25-26), learning about this can help a lot. Learning more about the Reggio Emelia approach might help parents curious about this, it has been quite surprising how much is possible naturally. One…

> One of the best things to do is to relentlessly read to and with your kids.

My mom would bring us into the clubhouse in the backyard and read to us, which I found really boring. Ended up not liking books because of it, and I'm pretty sure the same happened to both of my brothers. For years I'd only read the bare minimum required for school.

Years later I happened to see an neat book cover in the impulse-buy section of a store and begged for the book. That one book was what actually got me set on reading, and from then on I'd always have something with me.

She never realized this and still thinks I like reading because she read to us. I can't help but wonder how many of the anecdotes here are also parents not realizing what's actually going through their kids' minds.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#405

Post by margalabargala »

elteto wrote: post #393
margalabargala wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Keeping teens away from screens"? And why are there screens? Sugar is addictive. One would not necessarily expect a teen to healthily control their sugar intake; accordingly, we don't put bowls of candy around the house, and if we did we certainly wouldn't be shocked when they emptied themselves, and then thrown up our hands and said "can't keep kids from candy, what can you do?". Our kids aren't teens yet, but the…

There are screens because their entire social circle has phones, sometimes from an early age. If your kids don’t have them then they are the odd ones out, and excluded socially, which has their own extremely negative consequences.

And if the parent cannot find a single way to prevent the constant use of the screens beyond simply packing the day with activities, that says more about the parent than the kid.

If the only way a teenager knows how to make good choices is through outright avoidance of situations where a poor choice might arise, then they don't know how to make good choices.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#406

Post by guerrilla »

lukan wrote: post #349
margalabargala wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, I am obviously a racist, by glorifying indigineous teaching methods. No, by calling people "savages", a pejorative, based on their ethnicity. Much like how it would be racist to call people "enslavers" based on their ethnicity, or "cotton pickers" based on their ethnicity.

Erm, english is not my first language, but I believe, savage stands for uncivilised person. So exactly what I wanted to talk about, when referencing "natural education". I did not talk about any ethnicity at all.

It's considered super racist but also awkwardly old fashioned anyway even if it weren't just the former.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#407

Post by lukan »

guerrilla wrote: post #406
lukan wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm, english is not my first language, but I believe, savage stands for uncivilised person. So exactly what I wanted to talk about, when referencing "natural education". I did not talk about any ethnicity at all.

It's considered super racist but also awkwardly old fashioned anyway even if it weren't just the former.

Ok, seriously. I did not talk about any ethnicity at all. How exactly can I made a racist statement here?

Or were you simply trying to say, for you the term "savage" is strongly connected to racists and therefore inappropriate to use?

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#408

Post by elteto »

margalabargala wrote: post #405
elteto wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are screens because their entire social circle has phones, sometimes from an early age. If your kids don’t have them then they are the odd ones out, and excluded socially, which has their own extremely negative consequences.

And if the parent cannot find a single way to prevent the constant use of the screens beyond simply packing the day with activities, that says more about the parent than the kid. If the only way a teenager knows how to make good choices is through outright avoidance of situations where a poor choice might arise, then they don't know how to make good choices.

Do you have kids? Lots of assumptions from someone who doesn’t seem to be a parent.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#409

Post by guerrilla »

lukan wrote: post #407
guerrilla wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's considered super racist but also awkwardly old fashioned anyway even if it weren't just the former.

Ok, seriously. I did not talk about any ethnicity at all. How exactly can I made a racist statement here? Or were you simply trying to say, for you the term "savage" is strongly connected to racists and therefore inappropriate to use?

Calling indigenous people "savage" in English is almost universally considered racist.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#410

Post by margalabargala »

lukan wrote: post #349
margalabargala wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, I am obviously a racist, by glorifying indigineous teaching methods. No, by calling people "savages", a pejorative, based on their ethnicity. Much like how it would be racist to call people "enslavers" based on their ethnicity, or "cotton pickers" based on their ethnicity.

Erm, english is not my first language, but I believe, savage stands for uncivilised person. So exactly what I wanted to talk about, when referencing "natural education". I did not talk about any ethnicity at all.

Talking about a specific ethnicity is not required to be racist in English. If a person were to use the word "Nazi" to describe any person who lives in an area that was Nazi-controlled in 1942, this would be roughly equivalent in terms of the connotation and in terms of the reasonable indignation the recipient might feel.

Furthermore, if you didn't have a specific ethnicity in mind, then when you're going off about "natural education", what you're really saying here is "all groups of people that are part of a group I consider 'uncivilized' are the same".

Or alternately, if ethnicity isn't what you're using as your basis for calling groups of people and their children "uncivilized", what is?

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