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How University Students Use Claude

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Re: How University Students Use Claude

#401

Post by skandinaff »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #317
DSingularity wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is now reality -- fighting to change the students is a losing battle. Besides in terms of normalizing grade distributions this is not that complicated to solve. Target the cheaters with pop quizzes. Prof can randomly choose 3 questions from assignments. If students cant get enough marks on 2/3 of them they are dealt a huge penalty. Students that actually work through the problems will have no problems with scori…

Maybe we'll revert to Soviet bilet-style oral exams...

But they do that already in Danish universities, and I have to admit, those are very effective.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#402

Post by SiempreViernes »

stevenhuang wrote: post #378
oerdier wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critical thinking is not a generic/standalone skill that you can practise targetedly. As in, critical thinking doesn't translate across knowledge domains. To think critically you need extensive knowledge of the domain in question; that's one reason why memorizing facts will always remain necessary, despite search engines and LLMs. At best what you can learn specifically regarding critical thinking are some rules of t…

I think you'd find many would disagree with each of those claims.

And would they amount to a larger number than those who oppose vaccines?

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#403

Post by fc417fc802 »

cellularmitosis wrote: post #319
DSingularity wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is now reality -- fighting to change the students is a losing battle. Besides in terms of normalizing grade distributions this is not that complicated to solve. Target the cheaters with pop quizzes. Prof can randomly choose 3 questions from assignments. If students cant get enough marks on 2/3 of them they are dealt a huge penalty. Students that actually work through the problems will have no problems with scori…

Why not just grade solely based on live performance? (quizzes and tests) Homework would still be assigned as a learning tool, but has no impact on your grade.

That's exactly how scientific courses were in my experience at a university in the US. Curriculum was centered around a textbook. You were expected to do all end of chapter problems and ask questions if you had difficulty. It wasn't graded. No one checked. You just failed the exam if you didn't.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#404

Post by rcxdude »

azemetre wrote: post #300
pugio wrote: post #187

I've used AI for one of the best studying experiences I've had in a long time: 1. Dump the whole textbook into Gemini, along with various syllabi/learning goals. 2. (Carefully) Prompt it to create Anki flashcards to meet each goal. 3. Use Anki (duh). 4. Dump the day's flashcards into a ChatGPT session, turn on voice mode, and ask it to quiz me. Then I can go about my day answering questions. The best part is that if…

Flash cards are some of the least effective ways to learn FYI and retain info.

I've always viewed them as a good option if you just have a set of facts you need to lodge into your brain (especially with spaced repetition), not so good if you need to develop understanding.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#405

Post by Eavolution »

ryandrake wrote: post #82
dyauspitr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure you can assume close to 100% of students are using LLMs to do their homework.

And if you're that one person out of 100,000 who is not using LLMs to do their homework, you are at a significant disadvantage on the grading curve.

Currently in university and my experience is that it heavily depends on the module. For a lot your statement's probably accurate, however for others it really isn't. For example we have a microprocessors module which is programming for an rp2040 in c, but also manually setting up interrupt handlers etc in assembly. All of the LLM's are completely useless for it, they tell you that the rp2040 works in ways it just doesn't and are actively unhelpful with the misinformation. The only students who can do well in that module are the ones that understand the material well and go to the datasheet and documentation instead of an LLM.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#406

Post by shinycode »

jpc0 wrote: post #393
shinycode wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the extent is much broader from a calculator vs an LLM. Why should I hire you if an agent can do it ? LLM is every job is a calculator and can be replaced. Spotify CEO stated on X that before asking for more headcount they have to justify not being able to do the job with an agent. So all the students who let the LLM do their assignment and learn basically nothing, what’s their value for a company to be hired ?…

> Why should I hire you if an agent can do it ? You as the employer are liable, a human has real reasoning abilities and real fears about messing up, the likely hood of them doing something absurd like telling a customer that a product is 70% off and them not losing their job is effectively nil. What are you going to do with the LLM, fire it? Data scientist and people deeply familiar with LLMs to the point that they…

I fully agree with you about liability. I was advocating for the other point of view.

Some people argue that it doesn’t matter if there is mistakes (it depends which actually) and with time it will cost nothing.

I argue that if we give up learning and let LLM do the assignments then what is the extent of my knowledge and value to be hired in the first place ?

We hired a developper and he did everything with chatGPT, all the code and documentation he wrote. First it was all bad because from the infinity of answers chatGPT is not pinpointing the best in every case. But does he have enough knowledge to understand what he did was bad ? And then we need people with experience that confronted themselves with hard problems and found their way out. How can we confront and critic an LLM answer otherwise ?

I feel student’s value is diluted to be at the mercy of companies providing the LLM and we might loose some critical knowledge / critical thinking in the process from the students.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#407

Post by SiempreViernes »

djmips wrote: post #360
suddenlybananas wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If kids don't go through the struggle of understanding arithmetic, higher math will be very very difficult. Just because you can use a calculator, doesn't mean that's the best way to learn . Likewise for using LLMs to program.

I have no anecdata to counter your thesis. I do agree that immersion in the doing of a thing is the best way to learn. I am not fully convinced that doing a lot of arithmetic hand calculation precludes learning the science of patterns that is mathematics. They should still be doing something mathematical but why not go right into using a calculator. I have no experience as an educator and I bet it's hard to get good…

Can you explain further why you think nobody has tried teaching first graders math exclusively using calculator in the 30 years they've been dirt cheap?

That's after all the implication from your assessment that there would be no good data.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#408

Post by Cthulhu_ »

dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

> But that struggling was ultimately necessary to really learn the concepts.

This is what isn't explained or understood properly (...I think) to students; on the surface you go to college/uni to learn a subject, but in reality, you "learn to learn". The output that you're asked to submit is just to prove that you can and have learned.

But you don't learn to learn by using AI tools. You may learn how to craft stuff that passes muster, gets you a decent grade and eventually a piece of paper, but you haven't learned to learn.

Of course, that isn't anything new, loads of people try and game the system, or just "do the work, get the paper". A box ticking exercise instead of something they actually want to learn.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#409

Post by lordnacho »

noitpmeder wrote: post #44
bko wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When modern search became more available, a lot of people said there's no point of rote memorization as you can just do a Google search. That's more or less accepted today. Whenever we have a new technology there's a response "why do I need to learn X if I can always do Y", and more or less, it has proven true, although not immediately. For instance, I'm not too concerned about my child's ability to write very legibl…

This is an insane take. The issue is that, when presented with a situation that requires writing legibly, spelling well, or reading a map, WITHOUT their AI assistants, they will fall apart. The AI becomes their brain, such that they cannot function without it. I'd never want to work with someone who is this reliant on technology.

Do you wear glasses? Or use artificial light?

Or do you have perfect vision and get all your work done during the sunlight hours?

Technology is everywhere, nobody is independent from it.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#410

Post by pathsjs »

mbesto wrote: post #110
noitpmeder wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insane take. The issue is that, when presented with a situation that requires writing legibly, spelling well, or reading a map, WITHOUT their AI assistants, they will fall apart. The AI becomes their brain, such that they cannot function without it. I'd never want to work with someone who is this reliant on technology.

Do you work with people who can multiply 12.3% * 144,005.23 rapidly without a calculator? > The issue is that, when presented with a situation that requires writing legibly, spelling well, or reading a map, WITHOUT their AI assistants, they will fall apart. The parent poster is positing that for 90% of cases they WILL have their AI assistant because its in their pocket, just like a calculator. It's not insane to thin…

Yes, it must be more than 17k and less than 18k
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