I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad • Hacker News Board

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#401

Post by winrid » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 3:55 PM UTC

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #391

noisy_boy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ThinkPad X1 extreme is still chugging along but gets hot etc. I am looking for a cooler machine with ThinkPad durability. I can't choose Framework because a) they don't ship where I am b) they won't honor warranty if I use forwarders c) none of their offerings have a comparably durable config. Maybe they should think about a FrameTough line.

I was sad when I bought a new 10th or 11th gen X1 carbon to replace my 4th gen. I configured them essentially the same, second-to-fastest processor, FHD display, no touch screen. The 4th gen almost never kicked its fans on, especially in Linux. The new one gets far hotter, even at idle. Lenovo removed the traditional sleep mode in favor of modern sleep, which causes it to die with the lid closed in a couple days comp…

My 6th gen carbon almost never gets hot as well. Maybe the gen you have has a CPU with a higher TDP? They got better again recently.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#402

Post by boomskats » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 3:56 PM UTC

CursedSilicon wrote: post #6

I wish that Framework could attain the same lofty levels of "second hand market success" that ThinkPads enjoy. A lot of the "Thinkpad fans" I've talked to genuinely want them, or respect them for similar reasons they enjoy the ThinkPad legacy. ThinkPads are durable but every day they get older, slower and more difficult to source parts for as collectors entrench themselves and the requirements of operating systems (a…

I love my x2100. It is the machine I keep coming back to, and find more reliable and enjoyable than any other I've owned (including ones that outperform it on linux, like my oled ryzen-based t14s).

I've been trying to rationalise why that's the case for years - whether it's the keyboard, the trackpoint, its ability to survive my casual brutality, some nostalgic emotional/romantic aspect, etc., but recently I've kinda Stopped Worrying and just unapologetically embraced it. I've been wandering around kubecon with it for the last couple of days and getting 9-10 hours per battery and it hasn't skipped a beat.

For anyone interested, there's a new project in town, the X210Ai [1]. I can't vouch for anything yet as I've not pulled the trigger myself, but I've been in touch with the vendor via whatsapp for the last couple of months, and they're legit enthusiasts.

[0]: https://postimg.cc/Ty7PyKRx [1]: https://www.tpart.net/about-x210ai/

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#403

Post by noisy_boy » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 3:56 PM UTC

bkor wrote: post #134

noisy_boy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ThinkPad X1 extreme is still chugging along but gets hot etc. I am looking for a cooler machine with ThinkPad durability. I can't choose Framework because a) they don't ship where I am b) they won't honor warranty if I use forwarders c) none of their offerings have a comparably durable config. Maybe they should think about a FrameTough line.

> My ThinkPad X1 extreme is still chugging along but gets hot Not clear to me if you mean always or that it changed. Do suggest to check the thermal paste, plus clear out dust in fans and heatsink fins.

It always had aggressive fans but yes I do plan to open it up for cleanup (I do clean the fan grills with a soft brush regularly).

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#404

Post by userabchn » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 3:59 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #395

My primary computer, the one I'm typing on right now, is a 13-year old 2012 Mac Mini. It couldn't be more fine. It does everything I need it to do.

I use a 20 year old Dell laptop. The only problem for me is that 32bit is starting to become limiting.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#405

Post by zokier » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 4:00 PM UTC

Personally I think beyond T450 generation, i.e. over 10 years old systems, you are starting to make pretty severe compromises. T440 generation had really bad Trackpoint setup, and older hardware starts to lose features. Random stuff that T450 has that T400 doesn't

* USB3

* Up to 32 GB of RAM (vs max 8 GB for T400)

* M.2 slot (for SSD), 6 Gb/s SATA (vs 1.5 Gb/s on T400)

* x86-64-v3 (AVX2 etc) and OpenGL 4.6

* Dual-band AC wifi and BT4.0 (optional 4G LTE WWAN)

* DisplayPort with 4k@60Hz output

* Slightly larger screen estate (1600x900 vs 1440x900), with FHD 1080p display option

* Dramatically better battery life

* Backlit keyboard

Many of these are not merely nice to have but also ensure longevity by being compatible with lot of other modern stuff. On the other hand I do believe that T450 generation device might remain viable daily driver for a long while still. From the specs the biggest obvious shortcoming to me is the lack of USB-C, especially USB-C charging. But besides that, it seems pretty usable system.

For reference, I have old X240 that I still occasionally use.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#406

Post by dangus » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 4:04 PM UTC

coro_1 wrote: post #54

From what I know the entire purpose of the Macbook "Pro" line is literally that they're made to be modular. They were at least. I maintain a 2011 Pro. The build quality is noticeably nicer than the cheaper chassis they produce today. The experience itself is actually much nicer too, smoother, feels better. Added, modern displays have great resolution. But the aged units carry an interesting and rich in depth projecti…

I think this is something of a rose tinted glasses nostalgic look.

I remember my iBook G4 took 30 screws to get into it and swap a hard drive.

Yes, it was “modular,” but it wasn’t specifically designed to be easily repaired.

There have been times when the systems were designed to be easy to change components like the disk and RAM in the original Core 2 Duo MacBooks, but these seem to be the exception, not the rule.

Let’s not forget the “no user serviceable parts” original Macintosh. Apple has never really been repair-oriented company, they just occasionally make products that are coincidentally easy to repair.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#407

Post by unethical_ban » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 4:05 PM UTC

DeathArrow wrote: post #163

CursedSilicon wrote: post #6

I wish that Framework could attain the same lofty levels of "second hand market success" that ThinkPads enjoy. A lot of the "Thinkpad fans" I've talked to genuinely want them, or respect them for similar reasons they enjoy the ThinkPad legacy. ThinkPads are durable but every day they get older, slower and more difficult to source parts for as collectors entrench themselves and the requirements of operating systems (a…

>Framework laptops are wonderful, modern and (arguably?) cheaper to own in the long-term thanks to being able to replace components, particularly the entire mainboard as time progresses. They are also bulky and battery life is not great. To upgrade it you have to buy a mainboard which is quite expensive. I found that I am better by selling my old laptop and buying a new one.

I don't know about other non-mac laptops. I agree the battery life isn't anything to write home about, but it's better than my corporate windows laptop. I blame Intel/AMD/Windows for killing off proper suspend modes.

But bulky? I have the Framework 13 and it's very well sized. Smaller and lighter than the 14" macbook pro and similar to my windows laptop.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#408

Post by Saris » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 4:06 PM UTC

Having used old thinkpads I just don't really understand the appeal, especially with how poor old LCDs look. The trackpads are tiny, the battery life is abysmal, they're heavy and like an inch thick.

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#409

Post by 4k93n2 » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 4:08 PM UTC

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #56

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framework’s offerings are interesting, but after having gotten used to the solid rigidity of M-series MacBooks and X1 series Thinkpads, the level of flex in the Framework 13 is a major issue for me. It’s difficult to justify for the price, plus PCBs and repeated flex stress don’t mix nicely. I think it’s time for either Framework or a third party partner to sell a new chassis that’s compatible with the FW13’s mainboa…

imo the modular ports are a massive longevity feature. charging cable ports are one of the most common laptop killers, so making that modular is a huge step up

or even just keeping the ports on a separate PCB would be a help so you dont have to replace the whole motherboard when the usb port breaks

i bought maybe 5 differnet thinkpads over the years and never had an issue with the old charging port. with the last usb-c thinkpad i got i had to buy 2 new chargers and both of those i repaired a few times as well. the connector just wiggles around too much and the cables are also too rigid so when it gets snagged on something the connector ends up bending in the port before the cable bends.

in the end i just got rid of it before the actual port on the motherboard got completely damaged

Re: I maintain a 17 year old ThinkPad

#410

Post by fsflover » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 4:08 PM UTC

culopatin wrote: post #385

sitkack wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have taught at least three people how to do simple repairs and upgrades on laptops. Anyone that can read and use their brain can strip a laptop down to components and reassemble it.

Ok, but you’re missing the point and reassuring OPs. Three people might as well be zero.

It doesn't matter how many people do it as a hobby. Making a repair easier makes professional repair/upgrade cheaper, enabling poorer people to do it, thus decreasing the overall waste dramatically.