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What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

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Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#401

Post by goatlover »

chasing wrote: post #299
Gabriel54 wrote: post #141

Despite all the hyperbole in this thread I will try to speak plainly. It has become tiring to see how DEI has affected all aspects of academia. Hiring people based on race, awarding grants to work exclusively with members of a particular set of minorities, etc. I'm sure most people choose to close their eyes to such things and move on and focus on the actual important work but there must be unimaginable waste going o…

Unethical race-based preferences is what those policies have been trying to fix. Not sure you’re aware of this, but academia used to be basically off-limits to anyone not white and male.

It did, but how long ago was that the case? I'm not aware that academia was off-limits to anyone non-white and male right before DEI training became the norm.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#402

Post by palmfacehn »

kenjackson wrote: post #146
robbiewxyz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I gather, life for most of these "regular people" in Germany was still very much in the tolerable range until well into WWII. This was a very weird realization and one that left me pretty sad. Edit to clarify: I also mean no condescension toward "regular people".

The old quote, "first they came for ..." was written by a Nazi sympathizer -- until he was in jail by them. It's rooted in truth how it played out to him. "First they came for DEI and I didn't speak out, because I was not Black..."

And what of those who speak out against it because they find it belittling personally? What of those who do not want to be included as a token or talisman, but would rather participate based upon their qualifications and merits? Are we allowed to speak out and have differing opinions on DEI or will you compare us to National Socialism collaborators?

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#404

Post by lern_too_spel »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #330
avs733 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have written a version of this twice and deleted but just can't let this statement stand unopposed. This is, almost inherently at this point, a rant and my last contribution to this thread. This simply is not the case, I know it is something that you and many others believe is that case but you are being lied to by actual racists. I say that as a white man working in STEM academia. Academia had a long history and t…

> You think that [it] is based on giving some preference, but it isn't - its based on acknowledging and working to eliminate actual prejudice. I would like to understand your point here. I agree with you that the stated justification for DEI policies is based on "acknowledging and working to eliminate actual prejudice". I also believe that they explicitly give preference to certain groups of people over others. So wh…

You mixed up UC with CU. Also, the hiring practices described in these op-eds are illegal, whether DEI exists or not. If the allegations are true, the correct action would be to file a lawsuit, not to do the stupidity we're now seeing.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#405

Post by ipv6ipv4 »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #335
relaxing wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm not happy with what is going on, to be clear. But I am also not surprised that it is happening, and furthermore I don't believe there was any other alternative to this scorched earth war against DEI. If one had any reservations against DEI before, one would speak only in whispers. Now the backlash is here.

Of course there is an alternative. Through actual leadership.

It's not hard to effect change over time with a few memos (e.g. no more "pregnant people") and reviews. It may not be quick enough for certain items already in motion, but that really doesn't matter if the pipeline quickly empties out as the memos take effect.

The scorched earth policy is intended to sow fear.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#406

Post by goatlover »

jakeinspace wrote: post #306
dmagee wrote: post #59

There seems to be a lot of negativity from the HN crowd about this. But, the reality is that your fellow Americans voted for this. If you don'y like it, you're going to have to convince people that it's a bad idea. Getting worked up about Trump or Musk or SV bros isn't getting us anywhere.

First, Trump voters didn't exactly vote for this, at least not many. Identify politics and owning the libs, sure, but I'd say that a minority of his voters wanted to totally dismantle the administrative state - or if they thought that sounded good, they may not have been aware the repercussions of that on their lives. Second, we all have a right to bitch about what seems like a new America being formed. If things go…

Well voters have two-four years to vote this out of office if they don't like the results. History says the Republicans will likely fail to keep power, and it will be the Democrats turn again to set the ship right, or whatever.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#407

Post by tstactplsignore »

SquibblesRedux wrote: post #327

The financial position of the US is precarious, at best. I seriously doubt there is any painless way to correct course, as Congress seems to have lost the ability to compromise. Looking into the future, the US will go the way of the former Soviet Union if it does not take corrective action. Is the current situation the only way, the best way, or even a good way to address the country's economic position? That is a ma…

How do you reconcile these deeply basic facts with your point of view?

1. The US economy was the best in the world in 2024.

2. The NIH, USAID, and NSF budgets make up just a percentage point or two of US spending.

3. These programs consistently generate ROI >>1.

In light of these painfully obvious facts, isn't it clear that the priorities of this administration have nothing to do with government finances? And that even trying to frame the discussion that way is blatantly irresponsible?

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#408

Post by alienthrowaway »

khazhoux wrote: post #357
kristjansson wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even quoting the NIH/NSF budgets (or their line items) misses the point of the current actions. Yes, they're smaller fractions of the USG budget, but they not immaterial. This is not an attempt to 'save money' at the NSF and NIH (and USAID). A serious, rational effort to reduce their costs / increase their efficiency does not start with grep-ing manuscripts for 'underrepresented'. Part Five of TFA is on the money. Th…

[flagged]

Killing mawmaw to own the libs.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#409

Post by paulproteus »

refurb wrote: post #251

Ok, so all payments are paused while funding is reviewed? Allowance for emergency payments to keep the lights on? This is taxpayers money and these agencies report to the President under the executive power. A shocker that government agencies might need account for spending. And I’m sorry “its not a lot of money” doesn’t fly when all the “its not a lot of money” is $8 trillion dollars. The federal deficit will never…

8 trillion is the amount the debt rose while Trump was in office last time: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/us-debt-by-president...

How much do you think he will raise it by during this term?

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#410

Post by riffraff »

hinkley wrote: post #56
bawolff wrote: post #4

Seems like a good opportunity for other countries to recruit scientists. I think its underappreciated how much of America's modern success comes down to attracting scientists and intellectuals from war torn europe in the 30s-50s.

The World Wide Web essentially exits due to grants from the NSF and alumni from those grants starting Netscape.

But WWW was made up at CERN, you might as well say it exists due to EEC grants.
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