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The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

kranga.notion.site

401–410 of 460 posts

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you figure these things out is talking about them. Plenty of people like to solve challenges in weird ways and might even see the suggestions that it is inappropriate as a challenge. >There are not really multiple ways to read "I don't think that's a good idea" in an interview. If your "technical depth" leads you to an inappropriate solution, it doesn't matter if it's right. Just because this solution worked…

>Plenty of people like to solve challenges in weird ways and might even see the suggestions that it is inappropriate as a challenge. That's absolutely not the way to approach an interview. "Let me try to do things the exact way you clearly don't want, just to see if we can." Is the candidate going to try to do their next job this way? What are you going to do when their egotistical attempts to solve problems in cleve…

> The interviewers tried to tell him to approach it like an industrial-grade solution, not a weird academic exercise.

Wrong. They put in silly rules like "Max of 30 lines" and "Mutating array operations are forbidden". These do not describe industrial-grade rules. They describe an academic, esoteric challenge. And then when he provides them with it, they punish him for his creativity by adding in bullshit rules retroactively e.g. "Hardcoding matrices is forbidden."

You just sound upset that he's able to walk the walk but you WANT him to be just a bullshitter.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Author claims to speak English very poorly, but writes incredibly well! Maybe they leaned on LLMs, but this seems pretty good even for an LLM. The author claims their pronunciation is poor. Writing is a completely different skill. (Especially in English with its insane spelling rules.) > * Author says they have 2 years of work experience in a company that doesn't use Typescript, but then proceeds to create a solu…

Each factor alone is within the realm of possible but unlikely. The combination multiplies my skepticism exponentially. It could be genuine, but I would bet against it.

A lot of people program for a hobby, especially before their career starts.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you still haven’t made your case for your original claim. You’re ignoring my argument I think because it’s not reductive enough for you to see. And you just sent a paragraph about a single example among several examples which I specifically disclaimed as exemplary and highly visible as if that somehow is negated by your hypotheticals. You are following that up by, I guess, trying to convince me that I should igno…

> I understand you’ve convinced yourself that the UBI and other hypotheticals are proof but they’re only proof if you’re already subscribed to those reductive views Far from reductive, my theory is fully explanatory. People have a certain way they would like to spend their time (what they want to do) then for every step you take away from that, you need to compensate them with something (usually money). Obviously in…

Listen, your argument follows from your premises, but your premises are flawed. Your argument is reductive because it requires the assumption that people only want one thing (specifically in this case: to do a thing other than their job). Of course it follows that they're doing something they don't want to be doing when you only allow them to want one thing.

It's not reasonable to take someone saying, "I'd rather be parasailing..." to mean, "I don't want to do this work." Those are not equivalent statements. For starters, one is relative and the other is absolute. Even if that weren't the case, people can want more than one thing and even conflicting things.

If I say, "I want to fly like Superman" you can't then conclude that everything in my life that I'm doing is something I don't want to be doing since I'm not flying like Superman at any moment.

It's reductive and the only thing it fully explains is the highly reductive space it constructs.

> If we're going do discuss justifying original points, perhaps you should address yours: "I wouldn’t accept an employee or a boss who thought this [the exchanged of labour for money] was a reasonable definition of a job."

I've already justified it. In my experience, which I understand is not your experience, an employee with this attitude is more likely to not have a good work ethic. You then made up a bunch of stuff about what I mean by that, but I just mean they're less likely to do a good job. A boss with this attitude is more likely to feel entitled to my labor and make unreasonable demands, including but not limited to trying to require me to do things I don't want to do (i.e., that I haven't agreed to do as part of accepting a job).

> Can you at least see my objection? Someone who thinks a job aught to be pleasurable is breaking down the boundary between work and pleasure. This can very easily lead to abuse, where someone believes they are entitled to their employees' work and the employees should be thankful for being exploited.

There was never a moment when I couldn't see your objection. I just think the opposite is more likely, but this view is really just your opinion and not actually related to your original statement, except in terms of its explanatory power for why you want to believe the world works a certain way.

It's wholly unclear to me why a boss acting badly means all employees everywhere should have a wall between work and pleasure. That seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Should we all just do jobs we hate so this doesn't happen?

A boss can certainly try to exploit his employees by using their non-monetary interests against them. But the boss that thinks transactionally is more likely to do it!

On the flip side, any employee can have a good work ethic, but...

Suppose you have a transactional employee and an employee who wants to be there. Suppose also you have a machine that requires maintenance and it is such that it is difficult to see whether that maintenance has been done. If the maintenance isn't done, you won't know until (say) two years later when the machine breaks down and requires relatively expensive repairs.

Are you going to assign the employee that has said to you this is just transactional? What is his incentive to even do the maintenance? Yes, either employee can get away without doing the maintenance. But which one do you think is more likely to shirk the responsibility? Which one is more likely to not be around to face consequences if they don't do the work?

So, yes, I see what you are saying. But I'm not even a little bit convinced. I don't want to deal with people as employees, bosses, partners, contractors, clients, etc who view work this way, because 'the real world' just doesn't work that way and people who think it does, again in my experience are generally more likely to be a problem than others.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good leadership starts with clearly communicating expectations. If your boss can not say "I want you to use this tool" or "use whatever you seem fit", but instead hints to you as to some possible drawbacks of certain tools he is bad at his job. There are multiple ways to read that suggestion. It can also be read as the interviewer saying he does not believe in the technical depth of the candidate, which can be taken…

what is this good leadership you speak of, where did you encounter that?

military

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand you’ve convinced yourself that the UBI and other hypotheticals are proof but they’re only proof if you’re already subscribed to those reductive views Far from reductive, my theory is fully explanatory. People have a certain way they would like to spend their time (what they want to do) then for every step you take away from that, you need to compensate them with something (usually money). Obviously in…

Listen, your argument follows from your premises, but your premises are flawed. Your argument is reductive because it requires the assumption that people only want one thing (specifically in this case: to do a thing other than their job). Of course it follows that they're doing something they don't want to be doing when you only allow them to want one thing. It's not reasonable to take someone saying, "I'd rather be…

> Your argument is reductive because it requires the assumption that people only want one thing

No it doesn't. I explicitly mention that there is one thing they want to do the most and that other things are closer to or further away from that thing.

> Are you going to assign the employee that has said to you this is just transactional? What is his incentive to even do the maintenance.

I would assign the employee which I trust more, which could well be the transnational one. Someone who claims to enjoy their job might enjoy it because they don't bother with the stuff that bores them, and someone who hates their job might hate it because they put intense effort into ensuring it is done well. I have family members who fall exactly into the latter group. They are highly committed to the idea of earning their pay and thus have a much harder time of it than they would otherwise. Someone who thinks "I must work because I'm getting paid" is far more reliable than someone who thinks "I'll work because I enjoy it". Of course some people will try to get away with doing less work, but I don't see much difference between avoiding work you don't enjoy because you don't enjoy it and avoiding work you don't enjoy because you can still get paid without doing it.

The point I'd like to make is this: someone who works for pay has a clear motivation to do work they don't enjoy. Why would someone who works for enjoyment bother with the parts they don't enjoy? You skirt this problem by saying the employee wants to be there and so wants to do all work, but there are some people who enjoy certain parts of their work and not others. "Wanting to be there" is not a motivation for working but the outcome of that motivation, where "pay" and "enjoyment" are reasons to work and it's not so clear that someone who only works when they enjoy it would be more reliable.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google pulled this on a friend of mine. "Solve this in any language you want." Friend solves it in Objective-C. "Oh, except that one." I have shunned every Google recruiter since.

I had a similar experience at a different big tech company when I went to use Ruby. The interviewer suggested that Ruby was allowed, but I would be unlikely to get the job if I didn't use python. I did get the job, and with almost entirely in Ruby and PowerShell, so....

Good for you!

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#407
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a lot of experiences like this, and I wound up ducking out of the industry entirely in 2021 after having had my skillset reduced to dogmatic use of the infrastructure buzzword of the day.

What are you doing for money now?

Nothing.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#409

Since I'm in the process of seeking a job, I would like to share a somehow related experience in one technical interview, this time for a senior DevOps role. So, after the initial introductions and talking a bit about infra as code with Terraform, they interviewer asked a question: "What would you use if you cannot use Terraform for a project?" To which I initially answered, since it was a SENIOR position, with a war…

Yeah I you dodged too. What work environment would you want to be in where there's no architecture discussion and you're expected to just have the answers?

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> artificially handicapping developers > punishing creativity A similar thing happened to me once in an interview. They said use any language, but were a TS shop. I went with Python, which is hardly esoteric. The interviewers were seemingly unaware of the breadth and depth of Python’s stdlib, and so I demolished their questions in short order. I don’t remember specifics, only that I used heapq for something, and iter…

Google pulled this on a friend of mine. "Solve this in any language you want." Friend solves it in Objective-C. "Oh, except that one." I have shunned every Google recruiter since.

The fact that one interviewer decided someone can't use Objective C shouldn't really give you any confidence that interviewers there are generally unreasonable.

I have no affiliation with Google.

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