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NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

congestion-pricing-tracker.com

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Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#401

Post by lolinder »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #384
lolinder wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is where some of the concerns about classism come into play. I'm already paying more to be driven around in an Uber vs drive myself. Why should I be given a toll discount? It's not obvious that Uber is exclusively the higher-class option. Someone could easily make the same calculation you just did and decide that for them even owning a car wouldn't be worth it, they'll just do Uber every time they need to. You…

> You can afford to own a car and do Uber anyway, others can only afford to Uber occasionally when needed. This isn't really a different class. The other class is the people who can't afford a car or Uber and can barely afford the MTA.

Agreed, I'm just using the terminology that OP was. The actual class lower than this doesn't pay the toll at all, whether the Uber toll or private car toll.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#402

Post by ghaff »

potato3732842 wrote: post #339
scottbez1 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top speed, sure, but for typical commuter heavy-rail, a non-express train isn't running at top speed for all that long. Diesel-electric trains take a LOT longer to accelerate compared to a modern EMU, so much so that Caltrain's electrification project shaved 23 minutes off the SF to San Jose local trip, from 100 to 77 minutes. Videos [0] [1] make the acceleration improvement pretty clear. [0] https://x.com/Caltrain/s…

The MBTA already runs top speed on most of its lines once you get outside of roughly I95 depending on the line. Getting there faster would help but I don't think it would shave as much time off the end to end trip as you think. And for the urban stops they already accelerate and brake at the limit of what is reasonable for standing passengers. They can't push it too much or an old lady is gonna bounce off a wall and…

The Fitchburg line did do upgrades a few years ago. I think they double-tracked sections that weren't. It still take a while--hour+--from the outer reaches.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#403

Post by blehn »

Lanolderen wrote: post #283

I wish people would focus more on scooters and motorcycles than moving people in busses. Coming from a place with decent and cheap public transport, no one likes it. It'll never be as fast, you'll always be closed in a bacteria greenhouse with strangers, there will always be crazies, it'll never have the exact path you need, you don't have as much control over it.. For the past year I've been commuting on a motorcycl…

No one likes decent and cheap public transport? I find that hard to believe. It's basically the common denominator for the best modern cities.

Motorcycles are definitely not the solution. Motorcycle usage in NYC has skyrocketed since 2020 and as a result the streets are far noisier, more chaotic, and more dangerous, especially for pedestrians and cyclists.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#404

Post by snake42 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #356
fuzzylightbulb wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is literally what the money is for

The problem is it's just not that much money against the inflated costs of NYC transit construction. It's budgeted to produce $1B/year, though that was before Hochul unilaterally cut the toll by 40%. $1B is like a 2000ft of subway tunnel or half a station these days.

The fact that its a recurring revenue scheme allows them to get bonds based on that income. I think I saw that they were planning to secure $18B for a project when it was $15 for the toll.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#405

Post by settrans »

Although marginally better traffic might be a side effect of congestion pricing, its primary effect is a wealth transfer from lower- and middle-class residents of Manhattan, who must buy goods locally at higher prices, to MTA contractors and their labor unions, who already make construction on the New York subway far and away the most expensive in the world.

Where is the congestion pricing tracker that measures the higher cost of groceries to working-class lower Manhattan residents?

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#406

Post by gruez »

gradschool wrote: post #395

Congestion charging started in London in 2003. I'm skeptical about the justification that it's intended to disincentivize unnecessary driving because people who drive frequently get a bulk discount rather than a surcharge as one might expect if that were the actual intention. A bulk discount is more indicative of a policy intended to maximize revenue. I'm also skeptical about the justification that it's intended to r…

>I have a moral issue with it as well because the roads are financed by everyone's taxes

Mind elaborating on how this is a "moral issue"? Public transit is funded by "everyone's taxes" as well, but you still have to pay a fare to use it. Do you get similarly aggrieved?

>Around the time the charge was starting it was easy to find supporters for it on tv chat shows but I never met one in real life.

It's trivial to find polls that show a non-negligible level of support for the charge. eg. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/gla/page/0,9067,897312,... or https://www.vitalcitynyc.org/articles/how-london-and-stockho.... Just because your small circle of friends don't support it, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#407

Post by walthamstow »

fragmede wrote: post #381
walthamstow wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is about transportation, not office or resi space. Edit - I see you've changed your message. How does a bridge over water add road capacity to a peninsula?

It doesn't. There may be a other materials that bridges can go over, however.

Your solution to road congestion on a densely-populated peninsula is more roads. Got it.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#408

Post by CPLX »

steveBK123 wrote: post #348
CPLX wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure that? The amount of the surcharge for the average taxi/uber driver per day will be many many multiples of the cost for a regular driver. In the case of a regular driver you you have someone paying $9 to bring a car into the congested area, probably serving one trip by one person. In the case of a TLC driver you'll have them paying probably well over $100 a day (assuming the $2.75 charge x 4-5 trips…

I have a car and live in Brooklyn. I usually take an Uber anyway because parking is a pain and/or expensive. So I was previously comparing: $0 car toll + $20-50 parking vs $0 car toll + $50 Taxi/Uber fare Now I am comparing: $9 car toll + $20-50 parking vs $1.50 Uber toll + $50 Uber fare That is - the fee is being passed onto riders anyway, so why should I pay a lower toll sitting in the back of an Uber than when dri…

Once the Uber drops you off, it's available to take someone else somewhere they need to go. Car services are an essential part of a total system that enables people not to have to drive. Personal cars are the opposite of that.

It's one of those things about the way Americans think about transit that makes me insane, they try to assess the ROI of every single individual leg of a transit system rather than assess the system as a whole.

For example they'll cancel late night bus service because very few people use it. Except that the people who do, are people who occasionally are forced to stay late at their job and rely on the bus running late. Once it's cancelled they have to drive to work every single day since they're not sure they won't be stranded. The 3-4 bus rides a month they used to take are exchanged for 22 private car trips because you cut back service.

That's just one example. Here's another more suited to your example. What if you generally switch to taking transit into the city, and only take an uber when it's raining or you have something heavy to carry?

If I allow there to be a robust market for Ubers in the city then that's possible. If I aggressively charge Ubers then you can't do that, and you're back to driving every day.

There's plenty of examples. But in short it's clear that private cars are by a mile the worst and most inefficient thing occupying the roads. That's what we want to have the strongest incentives against.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#409

Post by [deleted] »

settrans wrote: post #405

Although marginally better traffic might be a side effect of congestion pricing, its primary effect is a wealth transfer from lower- and middle-class residents of Manhattan, who must buy goods locally at higher prices, to MTA contractors and their labor unions, who already make construction on the New York subway far and away the most expensive in the world. Where is the congestion pricing tracker that measures the h…

[deleted]

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#410

Post by steveBK123 »

snake42 wrote: post #404
steveBK123 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it's just not that much money against the inflated costs of NYC transit construction. It's budgeted to produce $1B/year, though that was before Hochul unilaterally cut the toll by 40%. $1B is like a 2000ft of subway tunnel or half a station these days.

The fact that its a recurring revenue scheme allows them to get bonds based on that income. I think I saw that they were planning to secure $18B for a project when it was $15 for the toll.

Yes though I'd imagine its harder to secure bonds now that Hochul has shown the governor can unilaterally change the fee on a whim, plus new Federal government is antagonistic to the whole program.

Hochul won NY by a fairly narrow margin historically for the state against a pretty MAGA GOP guy. It's entirely possible some more normal blue state GOP type runs against her, wins and reduces the fee further.

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