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Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

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Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#401
Now imagine the ChatKGB in the USSR culling portions of the population with a "calculated acceptable error rate". Stalin's secret service wet dream.

1. Would you give that power to a World Government to measure you in a behavioral scoring system hence technologically enabling bureaucrats to vote that error rate value somewhat as they do for interest rates today "to ensure progress" (uniparty propaganda)?

2. What makes that impossible to happen?

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLM is just regurgitating stuff as a principle. You can request someone else's style. People who are easy to detect simply don't do that. But they will learn quickly

I’ve found LLMs to be relatively poor at writing in someone else’s style beyond superficial / comical styles like “pirate” or “Shakespeare”. To get an LLM to generate content in your own writing, there’s going to be no substitute for training it on your own corpus. By which point you might as well do the work yourself. The whole point cheating is to avoid doing the work. Building your own corpus requires doing that w…

I meant you don't need to feed it your corpus if it's good enough at mimicking styles. Just ask to mimic someone else. I don't mean novelty like pirate or shakespeare. Mimic "a student with average ability". Then ask to ramp up authenticity. Or even use some model or service with this built in so you don't even need to write any prompts. Zero effort

You're saying it's not good enough at mimicking styles. others saying it's good enough. I think if it's not good enough today it'll be good enough tomorrow. Are you betting on it not becoming good enough?

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically that's more a question about community. Its a very recent phenomenon to have cultures where parents and grandparents are expected to take care of themselves or live in a home/facility.

Living in an elderly home may be impossible, too[1], meaning at best you can stay at the hospital until you die (which doctors are eager to achieve), at least in Hungary. There is a sad, depressing world out there. One of my parents work at an elderly home, and the shit that happens there is just wild. Zero responsibility and accountability. Deliberate killing of people out of pure inconvenience, etc. I am in favor o…

Oh yes, I've heard my fair share of horror stories from elderly homes. I would like to say I'm glad they exist for those who have no other option, but even in the most expensive places I've personally seen its just no way to live in my opinion.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#404

Seems like the easy fix here is move all evaluation in-class. Are schools really that reliant on internet/computer based assignments? Actually, this could be a great opportunity to dial back unnecessary and wasteful edu-tech creep.

Moving everything in class seems like a good idea in theory. But in practice, kids need more time than 50 minutes of class time (assuming no lecture) to work on problems. Sometimes you will get stuck on 1 homework question for hours. If a student is actively working on something, yanking them away from their curiosity seems like the wrong thing to do. On the other hand, kids do blindly use the hell out of ChatGPT. It…

> I've landed on making take-home assignments worth little and making exams worth most of their grade.

I feel like this is almost exactly moving all evaluation into the class. If "little" becomes nothing, it is exactly that.

I feel this was always the best strategy. In college, how much homework assignments were worth was an easy way to evaluate how bad the teacher was and how lightweight the class was going to be. My best professors dared you not to do your homework, and would congratulate you if you could pass their exams without having done it.

The very best ones didn't even want you to turn it in, they'd only assign problems that had answers in the back of the book. Why put you through a entire compile cycle of turning it in, having a TA go over it, and getting it back when you were supposed to be onto the next thing? Better and cheaper to find out you're wrong quickly.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#405
post #215
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I only hope that we get to decide how society responds to that change together .. rather than have it forced upon us. That basically never happens and the outcome is the result of some sort of struggle. Usually just a peaceful one in the courts and legislatures and markets, but a struggle nonetheless. > new methods should be used to assess student performance. Such as? We need an answer now because students are bei…

> Such as? We need an answer now because students are being assessed now. My current best guess, is to hand the student stuff that was written by an LLM, and challenge them to find and correct its mistakes. That's going to be what they do in their careers, unless the LLMs get so good they don't need to, in which case https://xkcd.com/810/ applies. > Personally I think all this is unpredictable and destabilizing. If t…

> e/acc types

Please expand?

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#406

For a human who deals with student work or reads job applications spotting AI generated work quickly becomes trivially easy. Text seems to use the same general framework (although words are swapped around) also we see what I call 'word of the week' where whichever 'AI' engine seems to get hung up on a particular English word which is often an unusual one and uses it at every opportunity. It isn't long before you real…

> For a human who deals with student work or reads job applications spotting AI generated work quickly becomes trivially easy So far. Unless there is a new generation of teachers who are no longer able to learn on non-AI generated texts because all they get is grammatically corrected by AI for example... Even I am using Grammarly here (as being non-native), but I usually tend to ignore it, because it removes all my "…

It definitely flattens your style.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Clearly the answer is airport grade security at schools and militarizing police, instead of fixing the root causes.

Nobody knows how to fix the root causes.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#408
post #178

It is no longer effective to solely use a written essay to measure how deeply a student comprehends a subject. AI is here to stay; new methods should be used to assess student performance. I remember being told at school, that we weren't allowed to use calculators in exams. The line provided by teachers was that we could never rely on having a calculator when we need it most—obviously there's irony associated with ha…

> I remember being told at school, that we weren't allowed to use calculators in exams I remember being told the same thing, but I happen to believe that it was a fantastic policy, with a lackluster explanation. The idea that you wouldn't have a calculator was obviously silly, even at the time, but underlying observation that relying on the calculator would rob you of the mental exercise the whole ordeal was supposed…

It's actually not about beauty of the math, it's about something which is nowadays called a number sense. It takes a lot of practice to develop an understanding what these things called numbers are, how these relate to each other, what happens if you combine these with operational signs, how numbers grow and shrink etc. And you are damn right that there is no any use to explain it to the 12 year olds. Or even to 16 year olds.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#409
post #178

It is no longer effective to solely use a written essay to measure how deeply a student comprehends a subject. AI is here to stay; new methods should be used to assess student performance. I remember being told at school, that we weren't allowed to use calculators in exams. The line provided by teachers was that we could never rely on having a calculator when we need it most—obviously there's irony associated with ha…

IMHO. With calculators introduced, there is zero add in you learning long division. Worse than zero, you could have done something better with your time. ChatGPT is a calculator for all subjects. People have a hard time letting that sink in.

AI is a calculator for all subjects, ChatGPT is not that advanced.
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