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Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

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Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#401

Post by flanked-evergl »

lmeyerov wrote: post #400
flanked-evergl wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scummy companies took the path filled with the darkest of patterns because they want to suck up as much data as they can to sell to 3rd parties. I take exception to that. I have worked for many companies that are not in the least bit "scummy" and have popups. Even our government sites here in Norway have the popups [1]. All this points to is again that the regulation is bad. And again, because of the lack of certif…

I'm not sure what you're looking for, given how the rest of compliance works? What is the compromise? I suspect people would hate it even more if every company needed to go through an official gov GPDR certification. In the US, SOC2, and EU, ISO, are voluntary (not gov), and generally doesn't happen till most companies hit 8 figure revenue (and earlier in enterprise). What I would expect to start happening is, simila…

> I'm not sure what you're looking for

Regulation that is clear, in the sense that people can know whether they are complying with it or not and know how to become compliant with it. I explained the problems with GDPR at length now, I think it's pretty clear I don't want the problems.

I also want the national agencies to do what their job is — not their job according to me, their job according to the EU, which is defining certification that is acceptable to them. What about my expectations are unclear?

> In the US, SOC2, and EU, ISO, are voluntary

How are these relevant here? How does these being voluntary make GDPR less of a dumpster fire? GDPR is not volutary, in case that was unclear to you at this point.

So okay, other things — not the GDPR — are not dumpster fires, and how GDPR would not be a dumpster fire if it was different. Agreed. I did not say anything about SOC2 and ISO, and I did not say GDPR would not be a dumpster fire if it was different. My concern with GDPR is not it's acronym.

But the EU won't fix it, they never fix anything — they have no incentive to fix it, in fact, Eurocrats are incentivized to not fix it. They just keep smearing more crap on the crap sandwich.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#404

Post by schleck8 »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #369
schleck8 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens then? They leave a vacuum and then what? Noone fills that vacuum? Assuming there is zero competence in the EU, which is highly unlikely since both the best image generation model right now and very respectable open source llms are from the EU, and on top of this several countries in Europe have exceptional tech talent (especially in the East), the Chinese would jump in immidiately.

If your concern is privacy, moving to Chinese services is not the answer.

Okay, but this isn't about privacy since Telegram isn't even end to end encrypted by default where it matters.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#405

Post by Rinzler89 »

pb7 wrote: post #329
devuo wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> building alternatives takes time and resources. the EU has neither. Oh no. What would we poor Europeans do without a US company to lead us. /s Of course local and regional players would appear, as they always have and are already in place in multiple segments. Bolt, Glovo, Delivery Hero and many others are successful competitors to different Uber offerings in the different European markets they operate. The biggest…

>The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse. It’s both. Copying a validated business model is not a sign of competency.

You don't need to be competent, you need to make money. Japan, China et al also got wealthy by copying.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#406

Post by dumbo-octopus »

schleck8 wrote: post #404
dumbo-octopus wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your concern is privacy, moving to Chinese services is not the answer.

Okay, but this isn't about privacy since Telegram isn't even end to end encrypted by default where it matters.

This has nothing to do with Telegram.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#407

Post by jgowdy »

diggan wrote: post #381
jgowdy wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one way of saying "Europe is full of nations who provide unethical tax shelters for businesses (while criticizing any nation that doesn't provide their level of social programs), so they can regulate and fine and fill their coffers with money from businesses all over the world." But yeah, blame it on the companies that take advantage of the tax shelters EU nations choose to provide and the EU chooses to allow.

Maybe our definitions of "Tax shelters" are a bit different, but I think of Cayman Islands or Bermuda when I hear that, and Netherlands is not like that in the context of Europe. Probably Ireland is the closest you get, so would have been a much better example.

The Dutch Innovation Box regime provides a lower effective tax rate (7% as of 2024) on profits derived from qualifying intellectual property, such as patents and software. For companies like Uber, which rely heavily on proprietary technology, this can significantly reduce their overall tax burden on profits derived from IP.

The participation exemption in the Netherlands allows companies to receive dividends and capital gains from qualifying foreign subsidiaries free from Dutch corporate tax. This is particularly beneficial for multinational corporations with substantial foreign operations, as it prevents profits from being taxed multiple times as they move up through the corporate structure.

The Netherlands is a popular location for holding companies due to its favorable tax regime for holding and managing subsidiaries. The combination of participation exemptions, tax treaties, and rulings makes it ideal for structuring complex international operations.

So... a nation like the Netherlands optimizes their tax laws such that it's advantageous for businesses that are otherwise completely unrelated to their nation to HQ in their nation to avoid their proper tax burdens in the country they were started in and operate in much more significantly, for the benefit of the Netherlands getting additional tax revenue and to the detriment of other nations who would otherwise be able to tax that business.

Some people might call that a "tax shelter." Since it you know, benefits Uber, benefits the Netherlands, at the detriment of the nation(s) that Uber operates in...

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#408

Post by kmlx »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #405
pb7 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The biggest gap in Europe is not due to a lack of technical ability but rather of European wide capital that's not super risk averse. It’s both. Copying a validated business model is not a sign of competency.

You don't need to be competent, you need to make money. Japan, China et al also got wealthy by copying.

that’s not how it works. you can’t build long term wealth just by copying. this is why both china and japan had to innovate.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#409

Post by muaytimbo »

rvschuilenburg wrote: post #338
muaytimbo wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has indeed. American companies basically finance the EU superstate bureaucracy. I'd like to see some reciprocity on the American side, fining EU businesses dollar for dollar.

I don't think anyone from Europe would be against fining EU companies operating in the US that are violating US laws.

Exactly, I think the US ought to make some extremely ambiguous laws and fine EU companies, dollar for dollar.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#410

Post by mettamage »

nabla9 wrote: post #111
mettamage wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instances like this really make me feel that capitalism is devoid of any morality. If there's no law guarding it, a company will abuse its power in order to make more money. It could be a morally good thing, a morally bad thing, it doesn't matter: more money is more money. It feels heartless. I wish there was a better system.

> capitalism is devoid of any morality. That's a category error. Economic and political system don't have morals. Not capitalism, socialism, democracy, autocracy. Economic and political system should be designed to create incentives where externalities are positive and not negative.

I meant to say the same thing you said.

Note how I didn’t mention capitalism to have bad morals or to be evil. I did say heartless because neglecting morality (good or bad) feels heartless.

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