Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I don't have trouble with a multidimensional array or a graph. So you can visualize a graph, as if it were drawn out on a sheet of paper?
I can't visualize anything. If I close my eyes, I just see some vague light coming through my eyelids. I can "imagine" for a lack of a better word, the graph and all the nodes and edges "existing", and can reason about its properties based on that.
Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
401–410 of 416 posts
Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
#402Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like you actually have the opposite, hyperphantasia, perhaps even of an extreme kind. I also lucid dream, very vividly, but I cannot superimpose things from my mind onto my visual plane, it is more like the above parent for me, it's in a separate area from the visual plane altogether, and I suspect that's most people except for those with hyperphantasia.
Yes, from what I've heard from other people, I have pretty extreme hyperphantasia. The only other people I've talked to/heard of who experience something similar also have one or more kinds of synesthesia, which I don't have. I can pull anything from my inner world into the outer one and vice versa, but the things are only themselves. Numbers and letters don't have colors, smells, or personalities. Music notes aren't…
Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
Respectfully, you don’t know which experience is really normal (most common)
It's easy to infer which is normal based on one's experience of the world. The world would be very different if it were otherwise.
Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can visualize nothing, but have excellent navigation skills. I can accurately remember the geospatial arrangement of cities and locations and routes I visited only once decades ago. That part of my brain has nothing to do with “seeing things”
do you have any experience of feeling like youve been at a particular place before. if you dont remember seeing it, do you just remember the arangement of landmarks like dots on a grid?
You can see references to this geospatial sense in ancient Roman times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci
Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
#405Alert: if you were happy to learn about aphantasia, you might also be happy to learn about SDAM (severely deficient autobiographical memory), which I think is correlated with aphantasia. SDAM is when you know facts about your life, but can’t walk through any or almost any episodes . Apparently normal people can actually re-live episodes from their past, step by step or.. idk. Somehow. And I don’t know what I had for…
Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the test to be meaningful, it should still produce accurate results when the subject is pretending to have the condition (the SAT wouldn’t be helpful if you could ace it by acting as if you know the all answers!) Consider a turing test of sorts: I want to convince you I am phantastic, you are tasked with determining whether I am faking it. Could such a test be realized? Consider, for example, the “draw a bicycle”…
> Many aphants on the other hand have no issue depicting a well formed bicycle onto a paper, and furthermore would be able to identify faulty ones. As one, I don't draw, I construct. A set of rules make a bicycle a bicycle, so pick a part, draw it, then sequentially continue attaching parts per the rules, and at the end, it's a valid bicycle that functions. The resultant drawing is considered good, though I couldn't…
I happen to be fairly adept at wood working. And I often think up novel constructions that people quite fancy and indeed are willing to pay their hard earned bucks for.
Once I have thought these things up, I am able to render them to paper/CAD very easily for concrete plan creation. I am never surprised at the appearance of the thing when it is rendered to CAD, I always knew that’s what it would look like. I never saw it in any visual sense, but I knew exactly how it would appear, and I could answer in great detail any question someone might have about it (barring, perhaps, the sorts of questions that require trigonometry/excessive number crunching – the reason I’m putting it to CAD/paper).
To me, this means there isn’t a binary “has ‘imagination’/does not have ‘imagination’” divide. Rather, folks perhaps have different methods of “visualization”. Some folks have a “bitmap” approach (≈Photoshop). From the comments here, it seems some a “vector” approach (≈Illustrator). I would perhaps describe mine as a “CSG” approach (≈OpenSCAD/Grasshopper/etc.).
What’s nice with this phrasing is that nobody is missing anything. Nobody is a-trait. Everyone just has a different method of doing the same sorta thing, perhaps with some relative strengths and weaknesses accordingly, but no fundamental lack of ability to answer any particular question.
But who knows, maybe that’s just cope.
Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you navigate via memory without some degree of mental visualisation? I’m convinced many aphantasia folk are just heavily overrating what other people are describing as visualisation, as if it’s some kind of minority report style interface that appears before you and is perceived by the eye. It’s simply being able to reconstruct physical entities as mental models. Again, without being able to do that it just se…
> How do you navigate via memory without some degree of mental visualisation? How do people who are physically blind from birth navigate without mental visualization? > I’m convinced many aphantasia folk are just heavily overrating what other people are describing as visualisation I find the utter disbelief expressed by people who don't have aphantasia exhausting. It would be similar to encountering someone who has b…
I assume they create a mental model of space. To me, this is basically what I’m describing as visualisation. In ones mind one can arbitrarily place themselves in space and move around it. I guess this is slightly different to conjuring up an image, but to me it feels very similar. If you can “see” space in your minds eye, it seems like you could see other arbitrary things.
I’m not saying I don’t think this is a real phenomena, just that it’s hard to empathise and understand it.
If you could describe your experience of navigation from memory I would appreciate it. When someone asks you for directions somewhere, what goes through your mind?
Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's easy to infer which is normal based on one's experience of the world. The world would be very different if it were otherwise.
But all the comments in this thread show how different the experiences are. Personally, I can’t tell after reading all of them (and previous HN discussions too) which is common and which is uncommon: clear, fuzzy, abstract, or zero visualization.
Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
#409I don't see anything. I feel like we're talking past each other. I am skeptical that "visualize an apple" to some people gets them the mental equivalent of a Blender model where they get a 360 degree view of the image and from there they are able to apply arbitrary transformations. I can "replay" songs in my head with pretty good fidelity to the original if I remember enough of it, but I think that's fairly common.
I am exactly the opposite, I can very easy imagine an object in my mind and apply a texture, color skew it, rotate it. I can easily visualize a chessboard with pieces that I can change colors and even move. I can visualize moments from past, faces, places, I can even draw them to some degree however without much talent. But for the life of me I can't remember my favorite music unless I start hearing it and then it co…
Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind
#410Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, from what I've heard from other people, I have pretty extreme hyperphantasia. The only other people I've talked to/heard of who experience something similar also have one or more kinds of synesthesia, which I don't have. I can pull anything from my inner world into the outer one and vice versa, but the things are only themselves. Numbers and letters don't have colors, smells, or personalities. Music notes aren't…
That's interesting, how detailed are your models you pull out to observe? Are the models static? It's like you have your very own mind-linked AR setup.
But it's not static either. I can manipulate it at will. I can move around the space, or move the space around me. There will be more details if it's a space I know well, because more things will have entered my awareness over time, but I can also make educated guesses, like assuming the legs on the back of a table probably match the ones on the front even if I haven't seen the back.
I was actually an adult before I realized not everyone has this. Even then, at first I thought only people who had aphantasia didn't have it. I thought it was totally normal to have an inner world as detailed as the outer one. Now I kinda just think everybody else is missing out!