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When do we stop finding new music?

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Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#401

Post by goosejuice »

KETHERCORTEX wrote: post #273
bongodongobob wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but wanting your music algorithm to key in on the composer's skin color is a ridiculous expectation. Listen to albums or make a playlist.

In this case it's not that ridiculous because "black" here isn't just a skin color, but primarily a subculture/subgenre with some distinct musical attributes. Nobody finds separating French electronic music into its own subgenre ridiculous. Same with Italian Disco. Such distinct movements are quite usual, so dissatisfaction about Black Swing on streaming services is understandable.

I think many here are missing the point being made. Of course there are stylistic differences between some groups of artists. The thing is that they probably aren't coded by skin color let alone period location etc, so of course it will bleed. Playing some swing and expecting it to continue to stay within very blurry racial lines is unrealistic, silly, and maybe irresponsible for a recommendation algorithm.

As it's been said, there are better methods of discovery for this purpose. In your example, I'm sure there are Spotify playlists for Italian disco that have been curated.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#402

Post by 082349872349872 »

eloisius wrote: post #396
cesaref wrote: post #389

The useful metric with these sorts of things is to ask yourself, when was the last time you tried something that you didn't like? For expensive experiences, say, going to the theatre, it's hard to see shows you don't think you are going to like, as the price pressure makes you choose 'safe bets' as the cost/reward is somewhat weighted in one direction. For something like music, the above used to be the case, as typic…

> We really need music search which follows more interesting routes through content rather than just 'people who like this also like' or 'here's another album by someone you already listen to'. I agree with this so much. We've had about a decade of this kind of robo-curation in every single aspect of our media consumption. Read books like the ones you like, listen to bands like the ones you listen to, more videos lik…

I suspect it's the notion of a "feed" that's at fault, but then again I'm an old codger who likes to rummage in the cupboard and actively search for my content instead of being stuck in the high chair and passively waiting for somebody else's algorithm to feed it to me.

(in another domain, at some restaurants it's possible to order dishes which don't appear on their menu)

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#403

Post by licebmi__at__ »

cesaref wrote: post #389

The useful metric with these sorts of things is to ask yourself, when was the last time you tried something that you didn't like? For expensive experiences, say, going to the theatre, it's hard to see shows you don't think you are going to like, as the price pressure makes you choose 'safe bets' as the cost/reward is somewhat weighted in one direction. For something like music, the above used to be the case, as typic…

>We really need music search which follows more interesting routes through content rather than just 'people who like this also like' or 'here's another album by someone you already listen to'.

I wish we had something like /mu/ flowcharts[1] but in a more general way. So after playing a song you can get a question or a prompt of what you liked and get some suggestion based on the input.

But IMO, music recommendation peaked 10 years ago with Last.fm and it's only been downhill since then, which is a shame because we had a lot of cool music in the last years, but the exploration is getting harder. But who knows, maybe I'm just getting old and I don't hang around the hip places anymore.

1: https://4chanmusic.fandom.com/wiki/Flowcharts

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#404

Post by inbetween »

kristopolous wrote: post #30

I've got a rather wonky way of doing this. https://github.com/kristopolous/music-explorer I've been building systems to find new music for 18 years or so. This latest one I've been using since early 2020. It's really for just me so sorry if the documentation is a little scattered. I'm certainly doing some minor ToS violations all over the place with this thing so I don't want it to get too popular but I'll be happy t…

This looks great - how do you then keep the subset that you want to continue listening to in the longer term? Is there an "extract to my music collection" feature - or is this your music repository?

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#405

Post by goosejuice »

r1b wrote: post #175

Outlier here (musician, spend hours per week trying to find new music) - some thoughts: - The search space for music is really large and noisy. Most of the stuff out there isn’t very good, and the stuff that is good isn’t always discoverable with a single strategy - The best strategies almost always exploit human connections Some strategies I use: - Spatial locality, who is performing with or near artists that I like…

How deep are you digging that you can say most that is out there isn't good? I find this surprising. Or do you mean good as in to your liking? The amount of talent out there is kind of mind blowing to me.

Is this within a narrow genre?

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#406

Post by khazhoux »

bongodongobob wrote: post #247
Thegn wrote: post #224

One problem I've run into with the music services is with older styles. For example, I'm specifically into black musicians from the 1930s-1950s who played swing style music. I have yet to find a service that actually will play more than 2-3 songs in that style before deciding that what I really want to hear is rat pack or swing by white musicians. No matter how much I thumbs down it, I get Glenn Miller/Frank Sinatra/…

I'm sorry, but wanting your music algorithm to key in on the composer's skin color is a ridiculous expectation. Listen to albums or make a playlist.

No, he's saying that within the genre of mid-20th century Swing there are distinct musical traditions found in black vs white bands, which he wishes he could partition against. What's ridiculous about that?

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#407

Post by 082349872349872 »

RhysU wrote: post #313
makeitdouble wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably wishing for a community playlist with people pitching in songs as they discover them ? Would be great to have options to add stuff but keep it private while keeping in sync etc. Could be done with a meta layer on top of the Spotify player for instance ?

Reminds me of the old webring concept from long ago.

Or of the old mailing list concept from even longer ago.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#408

Post by lloeki »

microtonal wrote: post #376
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #106

I must be some sort of freak. I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s listening to classic rock, and a lot of it I can’t even stand any more due to the incredibly small playlists that most classic rock stations use. In my 20’s I started listening to a lot of classical and then jazz. In the 90’s a lot of grunge which’s I still love. After that was trance in the 2000’s, then ambient, techno and IDM after that. I still listen to…

I’m similarly weird. I grew up in the 90s and listened to a lot of grunge when I was 14 (the music age we seem to prefer according to the article). But I can barely listen to the music from that time anymore. It just sounds so dated, maybe because I listened to it too much? Something like Pearl Jam or Soundgarden just sounds so dreadful now. Instead, music has become much more timeless for me. 50/60ies jazz, 70s prog…

> It just sounds so dated, maybe because I listened to it too much?

Something like that happened to me, again and again.

Overlistening things I love (not necessarily because of me, sometimes it's third parties piling upon my own listening), then at some point I start to not like it anymore to a point ranging from "I have no interest in it anymore" to "it makes me cringe".

Then if I manage to avoid it for some time, often I end up rediscovering it (often by accident) and like it again, but the reason I re-like it is usually deeply different from the original one, and certainly far removed from nostalgia.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#409

Post by 082349872349872 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #381
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Green Day got a lot of air time in the 90's but the playola effect (the not payola wink-wink that still went on) died out in the early-mid 00's as rock and alt rock stations folded with demographic changes and mp3 trading took off. Also overplayed on the radio: Sublime, Rush, Van Halen, RHCP, and Metallica. As far as cultural impact over a larger timespan: Iron Butterfly, The Dead, Frank Zappa, Quiet Riot, Ozzy, MJ,…

From what I can tell from your list, it is 100% men. Where are the women? Heart might fit your list.

The Runaways? Ford and Jett both started their careers there, and while I don't know if Ford ever anchored herself in the literature, Jett covered "I Love Rock&Roll" and had it covered in turn by Parton, which then leads to a fair chunk of that century.
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