This is likely my last iPhone. Apple’s behavior in opposing their own customers is unacceptable. I’ll switch to a Pixel running GrapheneOS, where I can run “real Firefox” and any other software I choose.
„Real“ Firefox is now possible in EU.
Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
401–410 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#402I wonder why the EU is pushing Apple this hard, and not the other gatekeepers. For example, Xbox, Playstation, and Nintendo consoles should now support an external store.
Existing law surrounding anticircumvention already singles out game consoles as deserving special protection. i.e. the Copyright Office made it explicitly legal to circumvent the iPhone's DRM in order to install otherwise legal software, but they refused to extend this to game consoles. While you are technically correct that we should be treating game consoles the same as smartphones, in practice the industry treats game consoles as a locked down box to handcuff users with while smartphones are not.
I suspect if half the console market was unlocked ala the Steam Deck, the EU would be pushing for the other half to also be unlocked, too.
We also have to keep in mind that Epic sued Apple, not Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo. A lot of monopoly maintenance involves obfuscating the business relationships that make the monopoly work. i.e. Apple doesn't report how much money they make from the App Store[0] because that information would be very useful to regulators looking to undo their monopoly. The discovery on the Apple lawsuit published a lot of this previously hidden information. In other words, the EU had Apple land on their plate ready to cook and serve.
Epic will not sue their console partners. The damage to their business would actually be a lot worse: instead of merely seeing Fortnite taken off the various console stores, the console manufacturers would be sending repo men to take away all the devkits Epic uses to test Unreal Engine, demanding they delete the console ports of the engine, and refusing to cert any new games using Unreal Engine, forcing all their partners to license different technology and rebuild their games from the ground up. It would be immediate and total financial suicide.
In other words, the console manufacturers are "getting away with it" because they had way more control over their niche than Apple did.
[0] Related note: there's an unenforced SEC rule that specifically forbids not reporting this information, to prevent monopolies from obfuscating their profit centers like this.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The gears of EU turn slowly, but grind finely. What would happen if big companies simply refuse to pay? Will EU put the European employees in jail? Would they put Americans in their jail? Will they do DNS block? Credit card block? Remove apple products from physical store? Many of the EU countries like Germany are export driven and certainly they don't want to close the market.
Apple has so much stuff and money in the EU, that there will be plenty to take. Only recently have the started to take back some of the funds from Ireland. Apple would be in a pretty bad place if those accounts were all seized, not in the last place because it would block all transactions including customer ones, ones to may for servers, rent etc. Apple might look stupid but they aren't that stupid.
Can't they take all the money out a month before they are planning to refuse to pay fine? I am pretty sure EU could never block Apple's fund unless they want to totally remove all the business from EU.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
I like this story. Nay, I love this story. But it is a just-so story. None of the regulators had a clue it would go this way, it is a lot of magical historical accidents, and there is no reason to think interference guarantees positive outcomes. For example, HN seems to bristle at the subject of AI regulation as a game incumbents play that hews towards regulatory capture. Apple is clearly in the wrong here but how to…
in this case the market is already captured anyway, though. Even microsoft couldn't pierce it.
The market was considered captured when Apple and Google entered the market in 2007-2008, too.
The reality is that nothing prevents a new entrant from gaining marketshare, especially considering that the vast majority of apps people use every day are associated with services not created by Apple. I wouldn't want to, but I could move to Android tomorrow with relatively little friction.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that the less-tech-literate people don't recognize the dark patterns. I like iPhones because it means I don't have to worry about my parents' phones. I am not looking forward to the day when all their contacts and pictures are siphoned off because they downloaded the required "ebook reader" via the big download button on a random website.
Can you explain how you believe the App Store prevents contacts and pictures being siphoned off currently?
Apps in the App store have to use a prompt to get confirmation that they are able to view and access certain things, like your photo library.
Breaking down the walled garden of the App Store would be moving in the direction of a world where the prompts/ requests for access that prevent (or reduce the odds of) data being taken/stolen is higher. If you can download a non-compliant app from any random website you might visit, you can bet your ass the 65+ population is going to end up downloading a bunch of malicious apps.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#406We need Linux for smartphones.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#407It baffles the mind that having exactly one marketplace with rent-seeking level fees that neither users nor developers can opt out of doesn't violate some kind of antitrust law in the United States. Though it looks like the EU iPhone users are only in a marginally better position.
Tell your mind it's an appliance/console.* Still baffled? Because nobody seems baffled they can't run arbitrary software on their Amazon Echo Show, AppleTV, Xbox, Playstation, or Switch. * If your mind is struggling with this, you might need a bicycle for the mind to help. ;-) But seriously, Apple's brand and value prop since original Mac has been to toasterize compute and make it friendly approachable and non-fiddly…
I don't really know that I agree with the analogy.
Yes, you're kind of right, I don't really have a problem with not being able to easily sideload stuff on my oven or dishwasher, despite the fact that they technically have computers in them. They are highly specific, single-purpose things and sideloading Doom on there doesn't really make sense.
Even a game console is still more or less single purpose (though that line is being blurred). Historically I don't do much on my console other than playing games, though now I'd argue that that's not necessarily true, since people install a lot of apps in the marketplace (e.g. Netflix). I do have a problem with Apple TV's being locked down, which is why I didn't purchase one. I use Nvidia Shield TVs, largely so that I could sideload ScummVM without any kind of jailbreaking nonsense.
However, I'd argue that a smartphone/tablet is different. This isn't the 90's; you use your "phone" for a lot more than taking calls. I have an SSH client, a git client, word processing, web browsing, nearly everything that a 90's-era computer could do on my iPhone; if we're going to say that Microsoft Windows is "general purpose", then iOS/iPadOS qualifies as well. We took Microsoft to court for anticompetitive practices, particularly in regards to the inability to install third-party browsers.
You can't really install third party browsers on iOS either. You can install Firefox or Chrome on there (and I do), but they're just frontends for iOS's internal Webkit engine.
So I don't know that the appliance comparison works. iPhones are (purposefully) not single-purpose. They're computers.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#40850 cents an install over 1 million downloads? Every year? Is Apple trying to get fined? They're not even hiding the fact they're maliciously complying. For one, this makes deploying a free app on an alternative store (that becomes popular) simply impossible? I highly doubt that was the EU's intent. Usually with malicious compliance you can at least see the logic for a future legal case. Here, if they were trying to l…
Genuinely curious: people throw around the term „malicious compliance“ a lot. It seems the platform fee is explicitly allowed by the DMA, so Apple demands it. Again, I am not trying to troll but what would „benevolent compliance“ look like and what would Apple‘s incentive be to give up the fee?
> It seems the platform fee is explicitly allowed by the DMA, so Apple demands it.
What's your source on this?
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#409The terms and conditions for web distribution [0] are concerning to say the least. In short, you have to have at least one million first installs annually on iOS to even qualify, in addition to other terms such as "good standing in the Apple Developer Program for two continuous years or more". I doubt Epic and the like would be considered in good standing as far as Apple is concerned. Also, quote unquote, developers…
Charging per install rather than per subscription is hilarious, almost as if all of this is designed to wind up the EU and cause the largest possible fine.
It's per year, not per install. All subsequent installs/updates in that year do not incur additional charges.
> "Developers will pay a CTF of €0.50 for each first annual install over one million in the past 12 months."
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#410Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hence why most European countries just mostly stayed with pre-paid, and operators have been trying to bride us with contracts for iDevices, or if that doesn't get us, contracts in disguise for pre-paid users as post pay. I will keep using Android devices with physical SIM until it isn't no longer viable.
That’s nonsense! Bundled contracts are common in most if not all of Europes economies.
That might be the case, but the phones aren't bound to any specific carrier. A phone bundled with an O2 contract can be used by someone with a Telekom contract.