Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management • Hacker News Board

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#401

Post by ryandrake » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:01 PM UTC

joenot443 wrote: post #288

fsflover wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is your conclusion? "It's a bad law"? Government websites breaking GDPR is an important thing to know, in order to fight against it.

I think it's a law with good intentions which was horribly implemented for which now the rest of the world will be feeling the effects for decades. I think there are very, very few people who are earnestly proud of the work the EU did with this regulation every time they waste finite brain cycles on yet another cookie banner. I don't really know why Europeans use this as an example of their system of governance worki…

It's possible that the EU thought: "This is likely enough to end cookie tracking. Surely no company would want to put their users through horrible consent UX just to retain their tracking!" ...and were wrong about just how far companies would be willing to abuse their user's experience, either because of the benefits of tracking, or purely out of malicious compliance.

The anticipated effect of requiring consent is that by forcing companies to shine a flashlight on their own bad behavior, they will instead choose to correct their behavior. That didn't end up happening in practice.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#402

Post by graemep » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:02 PM UTC

Yujf wrote: post #177

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any lawmaker with an ounce of foresight would have recognized the pervasive cookie banners as the logical consequence of the law. If you give companies an easy copy-and-paste way to get around a single regional law then they will do the quickest dumbest thing possible to get what they want no matter who the visitor is and where they're located. The EU laws are poorly conceived, poorly written, and now we all have to…

I agree that EU laws are far from perfect, but I 100% would rather have the GDPR than not have it. With AI what I saw in the news mostly made sense and did not hinder development too much. But again I would rather they regulate the use because it will have real negative consequences for many people if they don't

The GDPR and DMA are mostly good. GDPR should have exemptions for organisations with smaller amounts of data who do not trade in it.

A lot of EU laws have also been bad. VATMOSS (especially with the very low initial limit to register) was initially a disaster. It actually deterred people from trading within the EU! The commission's attempt at chat surveillance was thrown out by the parliament, but they will try again. The new AI regulations look problematic. The draft I saw of the AI one was far too broad (included old tech like expert systems) - not checked recently whether it has changed. There are also issues with a lack of FOSS exemptions in the other current law (forgotten what it is called) imposing greater liability for faults in some categories of software.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#403

Post by pydry » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:03 PM UTC

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #315

pydry wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It does seem they've mistaken the general sentiment towards government regulation in europe, which is typically, "more, better". The notion of regulation as being on a sliding scale where "more is worse" was a manufactured American meme created by the Kochs in the 1980s. It emerged from some of their epic fights with the environmental protection agency and their subsequent lobbying and public relations outreach effo…

Spoken like someone who has never seen the waste, lack of reason, and counterproductive incentives of a highly regulated market such as healthcare and telecoms in the US. Also, if you are not selling in the EU you would never start a high tech company in the EU. Whereas people travel across the world to found high tech companies in the US that are not even selling product in the US.

I was trying to say that you can't boil the topic of regulations down to "more" vs "less".

It appears that you were incapable of hearing this message and have responded as if I just said "MORE REGULATION! NOW!"

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#404

Post by pydry » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:05 PM UTC

kbolino wrote: post #364

silverquiet wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even on death’s doorstep, Trevor was not angry. In fact, he staunchly supported the stance promoted by his elected officials. “Ain’t no way I would ever support Obamacare or sign up for it,” he told me. “I would rather die.” When I asked him why he felt this way even as he faced severe illness, he explained: “We don’t need any more government in our lives. And in any case, no way I want my tax dollars paying for Me…

There is nothing more smug than the point-and-laugh hit piece, where a journalist finds some ignorant rube for the college-educated to sneer at.

Nobody likes to be sneered at but the story illustrates the corrosive impact of oligarchic domestic propaganda pretty well, which is pretty relevant to the topic at hand.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#405

Post by kys_now » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:07 PM UTC

kbolino wrote: post #364

silverquiet wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even on death’s doorstep, Trevor was not angry. In fact, he staunchly supported the stance promoted by his elected officials. “Ain’t no way I would ever support Obamacare or sign up for it,” he told me. “I would rather die.” When I asked him why he felt this way even as he faced severe illness, he explained: “We don’t need any more government in our lives. And in any case, no way I want my tax dollars paying for Me…

There is nothing more smug than the point-and-laugh hit piece, where a journalist finds some ignorant rube for the college-educated to sneer at.

[flagged]

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#406

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:07 PM UTC

soco wrote: post #77

blitzar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet digital cash is seen by actual true patriots as the solution to free themselves from the enemy the government .

As an European I fail to see how I could call myself patriot and at the same time distrust my own government - elected by me . Even if I didn't like the government, I'd still go with it because it's representing my country, and I'd also try to change the aspects which I don't like, again because it's my country. Those "actual true patriots" sound to me more like actual true selfish people which only want things happe…

This particular pathology makes more sense when you recall the traitor statues of Robert E Lee, etc; there's a substantial faction in the US which is against the US specifically because it won the civil war and imposed the end of slavery on them, which they remained upset about into the 20th century and schools in Alabama being integrated at gunpoint.

That's why the "anti-government" faction doesn't care about civilians being unjustly shot dead by police, because they're not federal government.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#407

Post by hwbehrens » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:09 PM UTC

tsak wrote: post #36

redwood wrote: post #15

I understand where the author is coming from and It is important to have a realist perspective on what is driving European strategy or else we will be in denial. I think it's also important to recognize that the west are interconnected in many real ways beyond economic. The first and most clearly top of mind recently is the US defense umbrella which allows the EU to invest on other things instead of defense. Another…

> US subsidizes most of global R&D for healthcare Do you have any numbers to back this claim up? > there's far less flexibility if they are a bad hire In most European countries any new employee will be on probation for an initial period [1] during which they can be let go easily. [1] https://www.eurodev.com/blog/probationary-periods-in-europe

Table 3 here [0] provides a breakdown of drug discovery by country and by expenditure. In terms of number of drugs discovered, the US leads with 66%, followed by Canada, the UK, Germany, and Belgium in that order.

[0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10134693/pdf/10...

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#408

Post by ryandrake » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:13 PM UTC

rkangel wrote: post #292

roenxi wrote: post #51

I quite like the article as far as it goes; but this begs the follow up question - is the strategy working? Because for all their standards and harmonisation, the manufacturing is happening in China and the decisions are being made in North America. This should be an article about how Nokia or equivalent is approaching the US all wrong and not understanding the realities on the ground. I'd put energy in a similar fra…

It's working for the people that live in the EU. This is another point that I think Americans miss sometimes - "good for the businesses" is seen as the end goal, and it is assumed that people will benefit in some trickle-down way from that. The goal for all of this is for people to have good lives. Supporting businesses may or may not be the right way of doing that, but we shouldn't lose sight of the end goal.

Simping for big business is a favorite American pastime. Somehow, so many Americans have been convinced that they're actually business owners, just having a set-back and temporarily working for $20/hr stocking shelves or selling cars. But in their hearts they are actually tycoons, and anything that hurts business surely hurts themselves!

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#409

Post by rkangel » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:19 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #408

rkangel wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's working for the people that live in the EU. This is another point that I think Americans miss sometimes - "good for the businesses" is seen as the end goal, and it is assumed that people will benefit in some trickle-down way from that. The goal for all of this is for people to have good lives. Supporting businesses may or may not be the right way of doing that, but we shouldn't lose sight of the end goal.

Simping for big business is a favorite American pastime. Somehow, so many Americans have been convinced that they're actually business owners, just having a set-back and temporarily working for $20/hr stocking shelves or selling cars. But in their hearts they are actually tycoons, and anything that hurts business surely hurts themselves!

Quote from the West Wing: "That is the problem with the American Dream. Makes everyone concerned for the day they're gonna be rich."

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#410

Post by kbolino » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 4:19 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #404

kbolino wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing more smug than the point-and-laugh hit piece, where a journalist finds some ignorant rube for the college-educated to sneer at.

Nobody likes to be sneered at but the story illustrates the corrosive impact of oligarchic domestic propaganda pretty well, which is pretty relevant to the topic at hand.

Practical politics is more visceral than intellectual. A lot of people have first-hand experience with government-provided healthcare through the military and VA, and for many of them, it's not a positive experience.

A lot of effort could be expended by the government to improve the quality of its own workforce and the incentive structure under which they operate, but that is boring and unsexy work, which always gets put aside in favor of some new ambitious piece of legislation that makes a politician feel good about his or her accomplishments.

Then the backers of said legislation turn around and wonder why the purported beneficiaries don't like it. But politicians and the upper-crust live in an alternate universe where their own needs are met through special systems and their own view of government employees comes from the sycophants and yes-men.