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Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

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Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#401

Post by op00to »

jiqiren wrote: post #399
_nalply wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's horrible and very different from what I experienced in Switzerland. It's a concept in Swiss law that obligations are symmetrical, and the periods are quite long (three months, and not only for employment, but for other contracts as well, like renting). If you are dismissed on the spot, you'll get three months of pay. On the other hand, if you give or are given notice, you are sometimes expected to continue wor…

It really depends on the company and why you are going. I gave 6months notice when I worked at Apple (FIRE) and slowly offloaded all my responsibilities. I documented many things for whoever would come in to replace me. They gave me a going away dinner and I still connect with former colleagues.

I left a shitty job with no notice, and still got a going away dinner! The key is to be a good coworker, not be an asshole, and try not to leave a total mess for the next person. Oh and don't work for psychopaths.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#402

Post by op00to »

whalesalad wrote: post #99
aaomidi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is amazing video for making a legal case against Cloudflare. Cloudflare took a stupid, unnecessary risk here by trying to put this on performance when they haven't documented it.

What case? At will employment is a thing. You can terminate people with absolutely no reason if you want, most of the time.

If you give a reason, it must be true. Otherwise it opens you up to "well, what was the real reason then?"

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#403

Post by op00to »

sanderjd wrote: post #178
gumballindie wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, she did well by frustrating the process. Next time they’ll think twice before gaslighting and humiliating an employee. Telling her she was getting fired due to her own performance is just that. In my books she did well, hope she starts a gig on her own to never have to deal with NPCs such as those two. They feed on people’s misery.

Who , exactly, do you think is going to "think twice" next time? It's a bummer, but this is how this has been done for decades (generations?) and everybody knows it's how it's done, and that has in no way made companies "think twice" about business leaders assigning fairly low level employees or consultants to do these meetings just like this. There was a whole gag about exactly this in one of the last few episodes o…

I certainly won't apply to CloudFlare. Perhaps I was considering it.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#404

Post by makeitdouble »

IAmNotACellist wrote: post #340
hysan wrote: post #264

Why did HR lead with it being performance based? It makes no sense given that this is very clearly part of a layoff. And especially so since they had no details. All they did was set themselves up for a very bad conversation with anyone who asked why. It comes off doubly worse because they kept repeating the same “we got nothing” reply because it removes all perceived empathy from the interaction. To be clear, I don’…

On paper, she probably scored very low on the performance metrics they referred to. As she said, she was in a 2-month ramp-up, and had one potential contract and it fell through (through no fault of her own, she says). She was reviewed at the same time as everyone else who had been there for years, and they determined (perhaps with flawed methodology and a bad time for review) that she wasn't going to be a high-perfo…

> Frankly she sounds like a pain in the ass

It's almost as if she's pissed at the prospect of doing other pain in the ass things, like looking for a new job. People being a PITA when getting surprise fired is such a weird thing, right ?

> doesn't understand the cold reality of the business-employee relationship.

Looks like Cloudflare's HR will now understand the hot reality of having their firing meetings scrutinized on social media.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#405

Post by op00to »

Balooga wrote: post #375
epolanski wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my books she did well Hire her as your saleswoman then. And mind everything you do/say or you'll end up bashed in front of all the internet.

I don't know. Maybe treat others as you yourself would like to be treated?

Sales is not "fair", like engineering is "fair". If a salesperson fails to make the sale, everyone else in the company suffers. If enough salespeople suck, then no one has jobs.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#406

Post by op00to »

gumballindie wrote: post #357
epolanski wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my books she did well Hire her as your saleswoman then. And mind everything you do/say or you'll end up bashed in front of all the internet.

Software developers are used to being docile, but in oder industries being brave is a virtue. She’d make an excellent lawyer or leader. I dont understand why fellow workers are so angry at her if not the fear and terror at being in her shoes. Anxiety is common among keyboard operators. Watching this video is a great tutorial on how to change that.

Nothing she did helped her find a new job, nor did it help her keep her old job.

I think the term is "pissing into the wind".

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#407

Post by op00to »

boh_grey wrote: post #199
NicoJuicy wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my books she did well, You don't have the details and she had 0 sales. You're basing yourself on a TikTok video, with someone who knew it was being recorded and acted accordingly. Eg. Cloudflare 's products are very technical and perhaps she has too little general IT knowledge to be able to close a deal ( she mentioned to have 3 chances and closed 0 )

As someone very close to an ex-CF employee, I can state with authority that the company does very little to help it's employees come up to speed. Their training process is essentially a bunch of CF employees doing unimpressive powerpoint presentations. Their internal documentation is a huge Wiki and it's not really very well maintained. Their internal config management system is absolute trash and I'm convinced that…

> Their training process is essentially a bunch of CF employees doing unimpressive powerpoint presentations. Their internal documentation is a huge Wiki and it's not really very well maintained. Their internal config management system is absolute trash and I'm convinced that the only reason they stay in business is they've got a few long-time internal employees who know how everything REALLY works.

This is every large company

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#408

Post by op00to »

boh_grey wrote: post #276
NicoJuicy wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would surprise me. Based on contact with their support + social media + communication here + being a customer + discord + attending, although infrequently, community calls. Since you posted the link and I see very little history here, I can't acknowledge your claim of authority yet and I can only suspect, without certainty, personal grievances or conflicts of interests. Additionally, I find the correlation betwe…

I didn't get to be a (retired) 100x engineer by posting on HN. I don't post stories regularly but did in this case because a friend sent me the link. I did post it to warn others about CF. > Since you posted the link and I see very little history here, I can't acknowledge your claim of authority yet and I can only suspect, without certainty, personal grievances or conflicts of interests. Suspect away. When someone yo…

Oh yeah? I'm a 1000000000x engineer, formed entirely through posting on HN, and I think you're full of beans.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#409

Post by op00to »

laserlight wrote: post #378
sentientslug wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you need your manager to tell you that closing zero sales in half a year is probably not great performance for a sales rep? I'm generally on her side here but this is a weak argument.

> Do you need your manager to tell you that closing zero sales in half a year is probably not great performance for a sales rep? Yes, because every company has their own management strategy. Therefore, what is expected of sales reps, and employees in general, is different. If her manager can't communicate the company's management strategy and expectations, how could she align her work?

If your colleages are closing deals, and you're not, the company needs to find reps that do close deals.

I don't work for free, and I expect the sales people to go get money to pay me.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#410

Post by aaomidi »

epolanski wrote: post #398
aaomidi wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have more reason to believe this person than I do cloudflare.

Practice being skeptical.

You should probably do the same thing.

Given the information, and given what I know about Cloudflare’s internals and how they have behaved, and given how Matthew Prince has been in the past. It is unreasonable to think Cloudflare is in the right here.

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