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IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

wsj.com

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Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#401

Post by kyawzazaw »

piskov wrote: post #389
delphico wrote: post #339

While a vast majority of comments here seem to indicate a lot of jobs being moved offshore, there are massive layoffs (even entities shutting shop in India. Github closed its office here, Twitter reduced its presence dramatically etc. Where I work, there are no back-fills for voluntary attrition or restructuring). Layoffs are a taboo of some kind here too, affected are treated as "non-performers" and recruiters will…

I would say the article is about Pax Americana. Anywhere else — like Russia, Asia, Africa — IT is booming with stronger demand than ever. Probably, one of the main reasons for layoffs in “US and what have you” is new wave of deglobalization and having your own google, visa, etc. “just in case”. This way possible markets shrink and big “IT troops” become less economically feasible. We may even see in the not so distan…

could it also be part of "section 174 US tax code"

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#402

Post by chii »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #89
linuxftw wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that is true, but it was true before Elon took over, now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll be in a better cashflow situation.

> ... now they just have fewer employees to pay, so if they can turn the advertising back around, they'll be in a better cashflow situation They cut ~$1B in operating expenses, to go from $4.73B to $3.31B in advertising revenue, and forecasts don't look much better [0] What has Twitter left to offer? They don't have the manpower to add new functionality, and they are bleeding advertising money. [0] https://www.statis…

> They don't have the manpower to add new functionality

or may be they dont need new functionality. It works fine as it is today.

What twitter needs is revenue sources, and i don't see how they are going to get it.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#403

Post by osigurdson »

delphico wrote: post #339

While a vast majority of comments here seem to indicate a lot of jobs being moved offshore, there are massive layoffs (even entities shutting shop in India. Github closed its office here, Twitter reduced its presence dramatically etc. Where I work, there are no back-fills for voluntary attrition or restructuring). Layoffs are a taboo of some kind here too, affected are treated as "non-performers" and recruiters will…

I thought offshoring happened 20 years ago. I think today, it is more about aishoring, or the dream that it will be possible to do a lot with very few people.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#404

Post by sinkwool »

frank_nitti wrote: post #282
mistrial9 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the new CEO of Google is from India, no? I see a lot of very qualified people coming from India, around a big University here.. They have had twenty years to build to this.

There are extremely talented Indian engineers, but I don’t think this discussion is about the elite “cream of the crop” but more so the rank and file. I have been assigned to lead offshore teams with engineers that need direct guidance on very basic coding tasks, produce low quality code and become combative when receiving feedback. So many times I’ve reviewed and requested the same changes to code, classic example:…

There's gotta be something between Satya and "C-tier code out of rural India".

There are of course lots of bad coders in India, but there are also many really good ones. And whereas in the past they had to emigrate to US or Europe to fully make use of their talents, nowadays some(many?) choose to remain in India and work remotely. It's silly to dismiss and underestimate their skills.

As far your experience with developers that follow the specs literally, in an almost maliciously compliant way, that might be learned behavior from working on projects where the tasks are spec-ed and estimated and any attempts at going above and beyond ultimately result in late delivery and punishment, so developers quickly learn to only do the bare minimum of what is described. Granted your examples are extreme and pathological, so maybe you just had the misfortune of working with really bad people.

Additionally, unless you pick the developers yourself, you're at the mercy of the agencies who assemble those offshore teams, and often the economics are such that it doesn't incentivize them to hire the best people available. From my experience, many good developers find work on their own, outside of an agency, contracting directly with the remote company.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#405

Post by photonbeam »

ehnto wrote: post #374
kredd wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatively young industry, the population pyramid of workers would have more people at the bottom. So gaining only 700 jobs isn’t that fun. That being said, I feel bad for newgrads, since it feels like nobody wants to train them anymore. Any job posting I’ve seen is mostly 2-3 year minimum experience at a professional level.

I have genuinely never seen an in-house training program in the software industry. Maybe some bullshit industry certs that amount to a single exam. But nothing like an apprenticeship style program where over a year you are taught and mentored. Even university doesn't teach you how to work in the industry. It's a very DIY career, we should probably change that.

Training in CS is giving some new-grad a job, instead of not. Plenty of companies hire senior-only.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#406

Post by cmrdporcupine »

sosodev wrote: post #385
GoogleCloudC wrote: post #381

I work for Google Cloud on the sales and consulting end. We’re hiring exclusively in Canada and India. We have a handful of US positions open, but leadership wants us to prioritize Toronto. Now we’ve been asked what teams could operate 100% in Toronto without customer being the wiser. I don’t expect we’ll have a functional team that isn’t primarily leadership in the United States by the end of 2025.

How does that make sense? Canadians are cheaper to hire than Americans but not by that much, right?

In the Google pay scale, not a huge difference really. At least for engineering. Or at least some years ago when there was an internal spreadsheet circulating. Big part of compensation is in RSUs, in USD.

Now... cost of living in Toronto is as high as the Bay Area. I wonder if the above commenter meant Waterloo (hour from Toronto), because that is where the bulk of the SWE staff is.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#407

Post by fragmede »

alasdair_ wrote: post #371
sidlls wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some tech is. Meanwhile large tech companies that are actually innovating (FAANG, near-FAANG, and FAANG-adjacent companies) are not. My comp has never been higher, and we're hiring. In the bay area.

I’m honestly unable to name a single innovation from a FAANG that wasn’t just buying another company or cloning a competitor in the last five years. What has Meta or Google or Microsoft actually innovated on recently?

Self-driving cars, from the Google self-driving car project, which was later renamed Waymo, kinda seems like a big deal to me.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#408

Post by qaq »

sosodev wrote: post #385
GoogleCloudC wrote: post #381

I work for Google Cloud on the sales and consulting end. We’re hiring exclusively in Canada and India. We have a handful of US positions open, but leadership wants us to prioritize Toronto. Now we’ve been asked what teams could operate 100% in Toronto without customer being the wiser. I don’t expect we’ll have a functional team that isn’t primarily leadership in the United States by the end of 2025.

How does that make sense? Canadians are cheaper to hire than Americans but not by that much, right?

Immigration is way easier you can hire people from anywhere in the world. Similar thing is happening in Ireland.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#409

Post by qaq »

lgleason wrote: post #113

Yet many still deny there is an issue with jobs and keep asking for more lenient immigration policies. There is no shortage of IT workers. There is/was a shortage of workers who were willing to work for peanuts.

You do realize most large companies have offices in India, Canada, Ireland etc.? They don't have to hire specifically in US.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#410

Post by Spooky23 »

nebula8804 wrote: post #315
yesdocs wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s time we unionize as software developers. You saw what the UAW achieved, Software Engineering needs the same type of protections

It remains to be seen if the UAW's achievements will work out in the EV era. They need to unionize Tesla or they will lose hard. Looking at the teardown of GM & Fords EVs vs Tesla, there is no profit being made whatsoever by the old guys. Everyone either loves to idolize Musk or downright hate him with a passion. At the end of the day, the union companies need to still sell a compelling product at a good price. Coupl…

The truck is a disaster, as is Twitter. I’d guess you have 18-24 months before something pops.
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