Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis • Hacker News Board

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#401

Post by alex_lav » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

withinboredom wrote: post #397

alex_lav wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And PPE requirements are commonly mandatory Yes, and it's mandatory to drive the speed limit. And yet, here we are.

Depends on the fines. Where I am, simply doing 11+ gets an automatic suspension of your license. When I was in the US, it was a joke in that you had to "get pulled over" to get a fine. Here it is automated all over the place.

It's funny. This discussion keeps getting pulled in different directions. Are you advocating that we automate PPE use in the workforce? Otherwise, what's the point of this comment?

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#402

Post by loandbehold » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

Timshel wrote: post #340

nickff wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many workers resist using safety equipment, even when it is provided to them, and they are shown how to use it. This is common for fall protection too. Safety regulations requiring provision of equipment may not get the job done. For all we know, safety equipment was available.

I don't know, if you employ peoples to do a job with a such a risk to their lives, IMO it's your responsibility to ensure that protection is used not just provided.

These workers are often self-employed. E.g. just two guys installing countertops.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#403

Post by user_7832 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #360

asdefghyk wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does music volume, not just get reduced to safe level?

The volume you are exposed to depends on how close to the speakers you are. In a large venue the people closest are getting a lot more sound than the people in the back

What you're saying sounds great in theory but unfortunately it often isn't the case. I've been in small(er) rooms in clubs where the sound was still "blow your eardrums out" even in the back.

Anyway, the solution for "it's quiet at the back" isn't "turn it up at the front". It's line arrays, distributed speakers etc.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#404

Post by nikolay » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

I have a friend in this business and his workers always wear N95 masks and his machines are sprayed with water to greatly reduce the dust particles in the air.

If workers refuse to wear masks, then whose fault is this?! If employers do not provide the PPE necessary of this job, then they should be sued and put in jail! My friend was buying 3M N95 masks before COVID-19 at extremely low prices in small quantities - somewhere between $.50 and $.70 a piece. So, everybody can calculate the "savings" those cruel employers do - a lot less than $50/mo/employee!

There are so many Latino workers in Southern California who do not wear PPE for a variety of reasons. For example, all those leaf blowers not only breathe in gas for hours, but they also inhale dust and mold! And nobody seems to care about them! My city of Irvine for years was pretending they want to enforce the switch to electrical leaf blowers as based on numerous studies, 2-stroke engines pollute the air of California a lot more than all cars together, but have done nothing! If I don't run and close all my windows, my house gets filled with gas for literally minutes and then it's really hard to get rid of those toxic fumes! This madness should stop!

The same applies to many other workers! There's the law, but nobody seems to care to enforce it!

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#405

Post by coryrc » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:25 PM UTC

Timshel wrote: post #353

WkndTriathlete wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously disappointing that someone posting to HN can't be bothered to actually at least read the relevant Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicosis#Regulation_in_the_US TL;DR: it's already regulated (by OSHA). Total number of deaths annually by silicosis in the US is low (~15/year). The workers need to file an OSHA complaint if they haven't already.

I don´t know the wikipedia page mention "must provide" which in my opinion is not enough and should be must enforce. the OSHA page ( https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/19... ) mention "the employer shall fully and properly implement the engineering controls, work practices, and respiratory protection specified for the task on Table 1" which one could read as more than just need to provide but I…

I can guarantee all of them will ultimately die.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#406

Post by loa_in_ » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:26 PM UTC

corndoge wrote: post #392

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does a respirator not solve this problem? The article and many comments here seem to blame people wanting cheap countertops as either part or all of the issue, but if it's safe to cut them with a respirator or wet saw, the focus should be on making companies give their workers respirators/wet saws and enforce their use.

But who is going to make the dangers known to potential and currently employed workers? Companies can sieve through people until they find someone desperate enough or oblivious to the danger and they could not even be aware they're throwing their lives away. And the respirators are going to be in a locker that you have to sign off on each time you want to use them and to do that you have to ask your superior who would try to put you down verbally. I witnessed this model myself while working intermittently at a refuse processing plant that services a pretty big city. The work entailed manually sorting through garbage on a conveyor belt and cutting open any sealed trash bags, taking any plastic, metal, paper and rot out of it manually and into the chutes.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#407

Post by chasd00 » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:26 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #335

nickff wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many workers resist using safety equipment, even when it is provided to them, and they are shown how to use it. This is common for fall protection too. Safety regulations requiring provision of equipment may not get the job done. For all we know, safety equipment was available.

Employers must provide PPE. Workers must wear it or be let go. This is not hard.

Fire your workers and you have no one to do the work. If your whole crew refuses to wear a mask and completion of the next job means you make rent then what are your options?

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#408

Post by sgt » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:26 PM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #319

Why did I read this as “cantaloupes” 5 times in a row? Am I alone?

I think you're alone. That said, cantaloupes are delicious. Go to the store and get a few, cut the cantaloupes and live to see another day.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#409

Post by loa_in_ » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:26 PM UTC

IngvarLynn wrote: post #387

Verdex wrote: post #309

Omon Ra [1] is probably the most important book I've ever read. The wikipedia page suggested to me that it would be a surreal alternate history comedy about the Russian space program. There was however no comedy ... or at least nothing that was comedic to me. The point, at least as I interpreted it, was that society is very good at building callous machines that throw away human lives for no reason and then the same…

Double bollocks. First, you're striping agency from those workers blaming abstract society instead. There is no such thing as "collective guilt". Those particular workers are free to leave such an unsafe industry at any moment, probably even more free than, say, smokers who choose death from respiratory complications. I have exactly zero empathy for either. True that sometimes workers are not exactly free to leave th…

But who is going to make the dangers known to potential and currently employed workers? Companies can sieve through people until they find someone desperate enough or oblivious to the danger and they could not even be aware they're throwing their lives away.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#410

Post by temporarara » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

alex_lav wrote: post #337

toomuchtodo wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers must provide PPE. Workers must wear it or be let go. This is not hard.

> Employers must provide PPE. Firing skilled laborers harms both the employer and the employee. > Workers must wear it or be let go. Firing skilled laborers harms both the employer and the employee. > This is not hard. It seems very hard.

Seems like a complete no-brainer to me. If employer is found to not enforce basic safety things, no matter how skilled the worker who doesn't use them is, they receive a hefty fine. We are not talking about a guy who sometimes forgets to wear a mask or anything insignificant like that, but complete "f u I won't wear shit" attitude that should be met only with "ok, get lost then". It's extremely simple when you think about it. If you give the option to either be safe or not, the cool guys will never take the safe option and even bully those who do because unfortunately that's just how tradie culture is in general.

People can destroy their health for all I care, but the society should care a lot about enforcing certain things on employers because I don't really believe that those employers are voluntarily paying the medical bills of their victims.