Before I break my neck completely. Htmx is still JS? No?
Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
401–410 of 520 posts
Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
#402Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm kind of guessing / reading into their comment here but. Using htmx doesn't give me the feeling of "this is the only way I ever want to do this" but more "if html worked like this I wouldn't use js most of the time." The sense that an opportunity was missed and now we're paying for it in complexity.
The complexity is just shifted around from JS to HTMX (or hypothetically, html). Not a noticeable improvement.
I see it as much more, many things can be stripped out altogether. Client-side state management. Client-side input validation. Fallbacks for when data hasn't been loaded yet. Less async-based code, less coordination-required and event-driven code (this stuff happens but much easier and often code-free with HTMX).
Its not a fit for every site or use case but more than any other front-end tool or library or framework, it has enabled me to actually realize the UI concepts in my head to the actual screen, and usually a lot quicker than I'd expect.
Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
#403hi there, as many of you know, i am the creator of htmx and I'm happy to answer any questions about it htmx has seen a surge in popularity, triggered by a video by fireship dev ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-GSGH2RxJs ) and a series of videos by ThePrimeagen, a popular twitch streamer on it hacker news readers might be interested in the essays I have written on htmx & hypermedia in general here: https://htmx.org…
As someone relatively new (few months in) to full-stack development, what can HTMX offer me? I've been semi interested since Prime mentioned it a handful of times, but I feel maybe I'm too new to fully understand what I gain from it. As soon as I'm finish with my current project, I'd like to check it out. For reference, I'm currently working within the T3 Stack.
Simplicity. You don't have to become another React Andy and deal with all of the complexity that comes with it.
Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
#404Earlier quoted context omitted.
This doesn't make sense. Can you elaborate? If it's not much work for the server, why would it be work for the browser?
JavaScript is single-threaded, so whatever CPU work is going on will compete with the UI responsiveness. Even mobile apps, which run a dedicated thread for each, probably won't do one single clean UI update in response to the server-response.
Nolan Lawson demonstrated using a web worker to perform virtual DOM updates in 2015. Sad it hasn't caught on in any of the major frameworks. https://pocketjavascript.com/blog/2015/11/23/introducing-pok...
Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
#405hi there, as many of you know, i am the creator of htmx and I'm happy to answer any questions about it htmx has seen a surge in popularity, triggered by a video by fireship dev ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-GSGH2RxJs ) and a series of videos by ThePrimeagen, a popular twitch streamer on it hacker news readers might be interested in the essays I have written on htmx & hypermedia in general here: https://htmx.org…
I can’t believe you aren’t crediting your hilarious and pervasive ~~psyops~~ meme campaign
first rule of psyops...
Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
#406It's so odd to live long enough and see the steady pipeline of "look at this much simpler way of doing web apps, just write HTML, not like the previous complex way" projects, which then turn into the previous complex way as the eyes turn towards the next "simple way of doing web apps, just write HTML...". Angular and React started this way on the frontend, while ASP and PHP started this way on the backend (of course…
Style attributes’ values being long doesnt make it any less html-like.
Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
#407hi there, as many of you know, i am the creator of htmx and I'm happy to answer any questions about it htmx has seen a surge in popularity, triggered by a video by fireship dev ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-GSGH2RxJs ) and a series of videos by ThePrimeagen, a popular twitch streamer on it hacker news readers might be interested in the essays I have written on htmx & hypermedia in general here: https://htmx.org…
Hello, Maybe stupid question, but what are the downstream implications for folks like Vercel/Netlify/etc. who bet the farm on complex server rendered JS pipelines?
i don't think there are major implications: the web development world is still very react/javascript/JSON-centric
there is no reason that they can't tweak their services to be more hypermedia friendly if and when this approach becomes more popular
netlify (which offers free hosting for https://htmx.org, so is a sponsor of the project) is very HTML/hypermedia friendly as far as I can tell, and I don't have enough experience w/ vercel to say much other than a vague sense that they are extremely react-oriented
no reason that can't change as the market changes though: hypermedia pushes the main value locus of applications back on the server side and so server-side companies should like that
Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
if you sincerely wish to understand how htmx is different than the current SPA-talking-to-a-JSON-API approach I would start here: https://htmx.org/essays/hypermedia-driven-applications/ and then work through the rest of the essays: https://htmx.org/essays/
Thank you, reading now - do genuinely want to know. I understand how my message came across, but I do intentionally reflect how many attempts there have been to change the paradigm so far.
no problem, i try not to take things personally online: i've said plenty of things that either were mean or came across as mean in my life, especially when I was younger
i think one of the strengths of htmx is that it isn't really trying to change the paradigm to something brand new, it is instead going back to the original web paradigm of hypermedia and asking how HTML could have advanced within that paradigm, in contrast with the SPA paradigm that replaced it
so less of a wild bet, with more known advantages and disadvantages
Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
#409I was helping with an application that used htmx and had two issues. I’m wondering if anybody had similar experience and if these issues are from misusing technology or maybe there’s some ongoing work to address them.
1. A lot of custom middleware in controllers to decide if endpoint should return HTML for whole page or only fragment that htmx needs. On the side of htmx that sounds simple but it is something that probably every project using htmx have to reinvent.
2. Bookkeeping around `hx-trigger`. If UI is getting complicated, many elements need to react to external changes. Instead of reading some state and hope that framework will schedule updates, I have to manage a list of events to react by hand.
Anybody had similar impression?
Re: Htmx is part of the GitHub Accelerator
#410Earlier quoted context omitted.
htmx uses hypermedia, rather than client-side managed state as much as possible, htmx tries to take HTML to its logical conclusion (from my perspective) as a hypermedia, rather than imposing other ideas on top of it
You keep using the term hypermedia and I'm not certain what is meant by that term (I was thinking it referred to linked media). Hyper means over , right? So is hyper media more about the environment media is in than it is about links?
yes, I prefer the term hypermedia over hypertext because it stresses the systemic nature of a hypermedia system: a hypermedia (e.g. HTML, a hypertext), a hypermedia client (e.g. a web browser), a hypermedia protocol (e.g. HTTP) and hypermedia servers.
we have written a book on the topic here:
you can read chapters 1 & 2 for an overview of what hypermedia is at a systems level:
https://hypermedia.systems/hypermedia-reintroduction/
https://hypermedia.systems/hypermedia-components/
As far as what the term _hypermedia_ means: it is a media, such as a text, that includes within it _hypermedia controls_. Those hypermedia controls allow non-linear branching and interactions with the media, hence the term _hyper_, that is, above, "normal" media, which is consumed passively.
The hypermedia controls we are all most familiar with are anchors/links & and form tags. htmx attempts to generalize the concept of a hypermedia control.
The book goes into gory detail if you are interested in further exploring the idea.