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Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

theatlantic.com

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Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#401

Post by pyuser583 »

tlogan wrote: post #121

I used to strongly support making drugs legal. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in San Francisco has made me think differently. Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll s…

The solution is simple: we treat Im drug addiction as a disease.

This means using testing as to detect outbreaks. Schools should be allowed and encouraged to test students, as long as a positive test results in a trip to the doctor, not prison.

We shouldn’t force law abiding adults into treatment, but if they break the law, like vagrancy, treatment should be an alternative to gradually increasing prison time.

Treat it like we treat COVID. Test and treat. Vaccinate and manage. But if you refuse testing and treatment, you’re on your own.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#402

Post by gochi »

danielovichdk wrote: post #317
brightlancer wrote: post #186

Rubbish. Folks made the exact same arguments about alcohol and marijuana. Specifically with alcohol, anyone can walk into a treatment center without fear that they'll be arrested for the mere _use_ of a substance. (Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological.) If "hard" drugs are legalized, then they will likely be treated the same as alcohol and pot and tobacco: highly regulated, so…

I think you should contribute a valid source for the subjective claim of this statement. "Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological." I would, and that is not based on subjective opinion, call your statement - rubbish. I will even throw you a bone. https://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Madness-Deepak-Cyril-DSouza...

You did the exact same they did, but linked an inaccessible amazon book. Surely you can do better.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#403

Post by mouse_ »

michaelteter wrote: post #375
mouse_ wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experts and the educated class will say it's a complex and multifaceted issue. I say it's because the fraction of the sweat of our brow we are entitled to is shrinking ever smaller into nothingness.

I think you could expand on this a bit, because I want to understand... I think I might be close...

In the 1970s/80s, an hour of minimum wage could afford you about 7 big macs. Now, it will not even buy you one. Real wages have dropped to an all time low, and it is harder than ever to account for yourself as a working class citizen. Circumstances for the average American have devolved to nightmarish levels, and it seems that it is only going to get worse.

It has been said that inflation is not a bad thing because median wages will increase alongside it. In practice that has not been the case. In 2014, when I was asking for $15 an hour, my rent was $740. Now that I'm getting $15 an hour, my rent is $2,400 and I need several room mates just to get by. Inflation is not a bad thing if wages increase in correlation to it, but if they DON'T, then it functions as a tax on our future. The vice is tightening, things are becoming miserable, and a growing number of our children and our future are turning to hard drugs and escapism as a way of coping with it.

The 1% has managed to enslave everyone else; people grow apathetic, and take drugs, because, really at this point, who cares?

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#404

Post by pyuser583 »

brightlancer wrote: post #186

Rubbish. Folks made the exact same arguments about alcohol and marijuana. Specifically with alcohol, anyone can walk into a treatment center without fear that they'll be arrested for the mere _use_ of a substance. (Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological.) If "hard" drugs are legalized, then they will likely be treated the same as alcohol and pot and tobacco: highly regulated, so…

Legalizing pot didn’t eliminate illegal markets. They’re still going strong.

Same with tobacco, but that’s because of taxes.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#405

Post by alephnerd »

brightlancer wrote: post #264
darth_avocado wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with the sentiment that drugs should be treated like we treat other addictions like alcohol. Drugs should be decriminalized, anti social criminal behavior should stay criminalized. If I’m drunk and pee in public or assault someone, I’ll go to jail. That is what should happen if I do it under the influence of drugs. The one difference though between alcohol and some of the drugs is potency and how qu…

> The one difference though between alcohol and some of the drugs is potency and how quickly one can be addicted to it. This is a good point. If I go to the liquor store, I can buy bottles that are 90% alcohol or bottles as low as 3% alcohol. If we legalize "hard" drugs like opiates, meth, etc. then we'll get a similar differentiation along with the benefit that the drugs will be checked by Trusted Sources (both gove…

> I can buy bottles that are 90% alcohol or bottles as low as 3% alcohol

Depends on the state. Some states banned 90%+ hard liquors (eg. Everclear) while other states allow it. Some other states have banned selling hard liquors and wines unless it's from a state run liquor store. Other states just allow open sale at any store. It's all state dependent as the US is federal.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#406

Post by RoyalHenOil »

zeroCalories wrote: post #350
GeoAtreides wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nobody would propose making sugar illegal and putting people that eat sugar in jail.

It wouldn't be 1-to-1, but I wouldn't mind a war on sugar. Letting your kids be fat should be treated as child abuse, and you should lose access to medicare/medicaid if you've been fat for too long. People have gotten too soft(pun intended) about the right to do whatever you want.

>you should lose access to medicare/medicaid if you've been fat for too long.

Right, so you want to compound the problem, not actually solve it.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#407

Post by MisterTea »

tlogan wrote: post #121

I used to strongly support making drugs legal. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in San Francisco has made me think differently. Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll s…

> Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults.

I have a close family member who has been addicted to heroin for most of their life and they are in their late 60's. They go to a clinic and receive methadone which they can then go outside and trade for whatever else. Basically a flea market of intoxicants and they are found around every major rehab clinic.

The problem is they are so used to being in a stupor most of the day that reality is something they cant handle anymore. When they become sober they are faced with a loud, bright world of sensory overload along with physical discomfort, pain and headaches (I had addiction issues so this is my perception). You want to go back to lala land and forget about all the bullshit seemingly clawing at you.

These extreme cases become hollowed out vessels - the person becomes a kind of animal that knows only one thing: defend the mind against reality. They don't care about family, friends, jobs, hobbies, ad nauseam. They need SERIOUS help - help that I don't think we can provide as how do you rebuild a human mind and life?

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#408

Post by glonq »

Vancouver BC says hello, where the same experiment is also failing.

On a related note, anybody got a quick turn-around on a Hyundai Veloster rear window? Ours was just smashed out for the fourth time, because local fentanyl zombies somehow believe we are stashing a treasure trove under the back hatch.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#409

Post by fnord77 »

brightlancer wrote: post #186

Rubbish. Folks made the exact same arguments about alcohol and marijuana. Specifically with alcohol, anyone can walk into a treatment center without fear that they'll be arrested for the mere _use_ of a substance. (Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological.) If "hard" drugs are legalized, then they will likely be treated the same as alcohol and pot and tobacco: highly regulated, so…

> The big mistake California (and other Leftist faux-topias) made was decriminalizing THEFT, ASSAULT, smoking and shooting on BART

This is exactly it. The problem is letting the drug use impact other people's quality of life, access to common resources like parks, etc.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#410

Post by runjake »

j_walter wrote: post #26
runjake wrote: post #12

From the areas I live and work, Measure 110 has, at best, made no difference whatsoever. The current situation with hard drug use is that there are far more drugged out people in public, and far more open drug use in public since 2020. The exact causes, I'll leave to experts to determine. Measure 110 has certainly played a part, though.

Don't forget that many of those people are fueling their drug habits with theft...theft that has gone largely unchecked. Oregon became a destination for addicts where they didn't have to worry about legal troubles that came along with drug use. All

This is an important point. While drugs are decriminalized, crimes such as theft are not.

Pro-drug decriminalization people often argue that stuff like theft is still illegal. However, there are so many drug-related thefts that our particular district attorney is unwilling to prosecute them.

As a result, law enforcement won't even take them to jail, let alone show up, most of the time. Typically, you file a self-report on your LE's website and then never hear about it again. The thieves know this, of course. (For myself, n=3 since 2020. Though, I did recover a stolen iPhone last week because I acquired enough evidence/telemetry/etc to warrant a response.)

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