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A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

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Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#401

Post by api »

dublin wrote: post #332
api wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're only more affordable if you don't amortize the cost over a long period of time. You either buy high quality once or buy low quality multiple times. I've found that you usually have to go to high-end brands and/or "commercial grade" to get quality anything in the appliance space. A decent heuristic is also where it's made. For high-end brands some have certain models made in places like the USA and Germany and…

There is no product from China that I can name that is viewed as "quality" or "reliable" There is a reason that "Chinese shit" has effectively become a single word - it's a well-earned association. And despite being a leading IoT innovator for decades, myself (I designed and manufactured the world's first embedded web-enabled wireless and PoE sensors), there is almost nothing useful in having WiFi/Net-connected appli…

China makes some quality electronics, heavy industrial products, etc.

The problem isn't China intrinsically but the fact that a lot of companies in the US and EU outsource to China purely to save money. That's usually done on lower-end models or when pivoting from a quality product to a low-quality product sold on marketing.

Apple makes quality stuff in China because they're trying to make quality stuff. They work closely with their Chinese manufacturers. Of course they're also trying to move some things away from China but that's for geopolitical diversification reasons not quality reasons.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#402

Post by stickfigure »

MostlyStable wrote: post #391
stickfigure wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fixing all of your issues would not be hard with a modern re-design I'm not so sure. You could probably make the slot wider, but it's still a 100% analog device that operates via heat expansion of metals. The adjustment is going to be finicky. People expect toasters to "just work" without maintenance. As soon as you add digital electronics to automate the analog adjustment... why bother with the complicated analog…

That is not even close to the biggest advantage. The biggest advantage is the sensor instead of a timer for how long to toast. If I had to pick one advantage, it would be that one. The fact that it also means that the raising/lowering is automatic is gravy in my opinion.

Have you actually owned one of these machines? They do not, in my experience (two different units over many years) toast more reliably than other toasters. The primitive analog "sensor" just isn't that accurate and a simple timer actually turns out to be pretty effective.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#403

Post by m463 »

lopis wrote: post #249
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #34

70 years ago a fridge would cost $250-$400 - about a months salary, that's about $4k in todays money. If you pay $4k for a fridge instead of $400 today you can get one with a fair amount of gadgets too.

But that's the thing. We don't want today's gadgets. We don't need internet connected fridges, apps and other breakable IoTs. We just want more usable fridges.

I have also wondered if internet-connected fridges use more electricity. Having a computer and touchscreen and wifi collecting data 24/7 and sending it to samsung can't be cheap power-wise.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#404

Post by sharemywin »

coryfklein wrote: post #345
jdminhbg wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just The Market For Lemons at work. It's not, really. Information about brand reliability is widely available. People just value different things.

> Information about brand reliability is widely available I too see this information everywhere but I have no idea what to trust on this anymore and what information is paid for and gamed by the companies themselves. Brand reputation is its own business these days with its own products and markets.

exactly. everything is corruptible anymore.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#405

Post by xbkingx »

hobo_in_library wrote: post #350
dublin wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not as much as you think - the people selling them want you to think the old ones were awful and need replacing, but they were designed for both reasonable efficiency and decades-long life. (You really need to factor in a literal 6-10x lifespan difference into efficiency and environmental impact figures, too...) I have a large 60s/70s vintage chest freezer I bought on Craigslist a few years ago. I worried that it was…

> You really need to factor in a literal 6-10x lifespan difference into efficiency and environmental impact figures, too... I would love to see energy efficiency regulations take the item's expected lifespan into consideration instead of being a mere "energy per hour" measurement. One simple/naive way to do it would be to divide (energy per hour) by the number of years on the warranty. Your warranty is for twice as l…

I would love that, too, but it's not possible today. Everyone would offer 25 year warranties, close up shop in 5 years, and reopen as a new subsidy or company.

The only way I see it working is to hold some large portion of the revenue in a trust and relinquish it to the company over the warrantied lifespan. The company would have to operate at a loss for a while to books those reserves, so there would have top be something like a zero interest government loan to cover the cost, which can't be escaped through bankruptcy.

Or maybe a contract like the shitty cell phone plans in the US. Buyer agrees to pay for the full price of the appliance over the warrantied lifetime in installments. If you want to sell it or trade it in early, you either have to finish off the payment or transfer the contract. The company would have to service the product (within reason), or the contract is voided, releasing the buyer from payment obligations. Again, this system can be easily gamed, too, in today's market, but I just can't imagine a scenario that doesn't require a major paradigm shift.

I do a decent amount of 3d printing and I cannot count the number of random letter Amazon brands for filament that have popped up over the last year. Most are simply rebranded waste from larger manufacturers. Once the product gets below 3.5 stars, the brand disappears and a suspiciously similar new brand pops up with the same spool design and 20 5-star reviews overnight.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#406

Post by sharemywin »

beardbound wrote: post #328
jdminhbg wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just The Market For Lemons at work. It's not, really. Information about brand reliability is widely available. People just value different things.

I agree that people value different things but I wouldn’t say information about brand reliability is widely available. I have a consumer reports membership for checking that kind of thing simply because all of the info out there is mostly blogspam and fake review sites. Information from reputable sources on large appliance purchases is incredibly hard to find since most people don’t buy appliances often, so even cons…

how would a site like this even get paid? from appliance company commissions?

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#407

Post by mrguyorama »

markus_zhang wrote: post #138
jrochkind1 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, in general, things we buy today are a lot more "affordable" while being lower quality. Googling says the average cost of a refrigerator in 1950 was $250 to $400 (for 10 cubic feet -- a fridge today is 20 to 30 ft^3), which would be $3K to $5K in 2023 dollars. If you pay $3K to $5K for a fridge today (for a fridge 2-3x as big as the 1950 fridge), do you get a better longer-lasting one? I'm not sure.

Nowadays it's difficult to just pay premium and trust things to last for decades. A more likely event is that you pay premium, get more features, and the appliance breaks down if one of which breaks.

And the real kicker: It cannot be fixed. I DGAF if my expensive appliance breaks, but I can buy a ten dollar part and get it running again by the end of the week (maybe less for fridges)

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#408

Post by Shawnj2 »

m463 wrote: post #403
lopis wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing. We don't want today's gadgets. We don't need internet connected fridges, apps and other breakable IoTs. We just want more usable fridges.

I have also wondered if internet-connected fridges use more electricity. Having a computer and touchscreen and wifi collecting data 24/7 and sending it to samsung can't be cheap power-wise.

It’s probably negligible compared to the cost of running a condenser

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#409

Post by tzs »

seer wrote: post #160

A side not I always wondered why don't we have refrigerator models that are "split system" as we have with ACs. As it stands now it's a heat pump that pumps the heat from your refrigerator into your home. Wouldn't it be possible to create way more energy efficient model that has an outside body? Or even better connects to the AC body you already have outside? Like in the summer it would "help" the AC by being another…

Or if not outside, I wonder if you could dump the heat someplace inside that is better than just dumping it into the inside air? Such as dumping it into the hot water heater.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#410

Post by ASalazarMX »

Qwertious wrote: post #287
Night_Thastus wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a little tired of repeating this, but there are some good reasons why fridges (and most appliances) are the way they are now: * Strong regulation on energy use by appliances (modern fridges are much, much more efficient than ones from 70 years ago) * Extreme competition from companies all over the world * Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all The…

>* Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all Don't blame the consumer for this. It's just The Market For Lemons at work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons If you really need someone to blame, then blame the MBAs who buy up quality brands and then sell junk until the reputation is all ground up.

Consumers are actually the problem, just as voters are the main cause of bad politicians. Most people will say they want one thing, but actually want another. They want robust appliances, but they will buy the 199.99 ones, which forces even the most honest manufacturer into a race to the bottom, unless they target the luxury segment.

An airline which I can't recall, found the same: people say the want more leg room or other comfort, but when it's the time to pay, most end up choosing the cheapest ticket.

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