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A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

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Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#401

Post by Terr_ »

alwaysbeconsing wrote: post #146
buro9 wrote: post #98

The problem with this defense is that it is invisible... the thief will only know about it after they've caused external damage trying to get access to the system. I just use a steering wheel lock, one of those bright yellow chunks of steel that bolts onto the steering wheel: https://www.milenco.com/products/automotive-security/automot... This is visible to the theif and just raised the theft effort from "jump these…

"then use a loud angle grinder in a very enclosed space" They don't need to cut the lockbar: > What we knew was that the Club is a hardened steel device that attaches to the steering wheel and the brake pedal to prevent steering and/or braking. What we found out was that a pro thief would carry a short piece of a hacksaw blade to cut through the plastic steering wheel in a couple seconds. They were then able to relea…

> a short piece of a hacksaw blade to cut through the plastic steering wheel in a couple seconds

I'm having trouble visualizing that part, unless it refers to steering-wheels of the past with a lot less material. Wouldn't a piece of hacksaw blade also be much less effective, without the rest of the hacksaw to provide tension?

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#402

Post by kube-system »

EGreg wrote: post #388
kube-system wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that locks would have prevented this?

Certainly kill switches would Every TV show has a self destruct mechanism to prevent a ship from falling into enemy hands and blabla etc

An opposing military capable of leading the Russian military to abandon their tanks would also have the capability of defeating a kill switch once they have unhindered physical access to it.

Scuttling has been a common military practice, for literally millennia. This practice is unrelated to the presence of any locks on the vehicle. Militaries are equipped with explosives and weapons and can perform these actions without them being built into the vehicle. The reason this did not happen is not due to the construction of their vehicles, it is because they did not take action to do so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling

The automated self-destruct countdowns you have seen in movies and TV shows are used for dramatic effect. In reality, it is cheaper, more reliable, and safer to scuttle a manned vehicle manually.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#403

Post by EGreg »

seabird wrote: post #188
EGreg wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, let's intentionally omit locks from equipment that is designed not to fall into enemy hands. Let's not have a kill switch, either. Sure, makes sense for an agency with more money to spend than every corporation in America!

Even if you put the locks on, they would never be used. If you need it you need it right now, and it's usually life or death. If somebody is trying to steal it, you shoot them. The last thing you want to be doing in a gunfight is fucking with a lock.

This is a strawman

All you have to do is have every soldier who is authorized to use your equipment unlock the vehicle through an affirmative phrase — and the vehicle can check their voice for instance, or other biometrics like their fingerprint. Or each of them can wear a beacon or smartphone which does that.

Cars today open with you just getting into the car. This is easy stuff man

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#405

Post by SanderNL »

K0balt wrote: post #84

1.2 million grant for this? Now I’ve seen grift, but come on. I want to hire their grant writer. Literally a relay in the starter lead. This looks like one of my afternoon projects, and I’m not even joking. I have a 1990s montero diesel and it leaks power, and I often forget to disconnect the terminal. So I bought a relay from AliExpress (same one shown in this photo but one size up) and hooked it up with an esp32 an…

Hate to say it, but the tech itself is the easy part. It usually is.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#406

Post by akira2501 »

samtho wrote: post #343

This will always be a cat and mouse game: as cars become more complicated and have more security features, there are just more points of failure. A toolmaker for thieves or locksmiths will get a new car and automate the exploitation of a vulnerability. Some new lamps are fully computer controlled with pins for 12v, GND, CAN-H, and CAN-L instead of just a switched leg and a common. If I can get access to the inside of…

If your car can be repossessed, it can be stolen, and the set of tools in a repo mans arsenal for moving vehicles is much larger than most people might expect. If I can get my hands on your vehicle, I can take it.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#407

Post by jeremy_wiebe »

dahwolf wrote: post #383
Waterluvian wrote: post #14

I knew someone with a shitty pickup truck where he wired a light switch into the fuel pump and hid it under the steering column. The truck would be stolen something like 5 times a year and every time he would find it abandoned a km or so away when the gas in the line ran out. I drove in it once to get lunch and near the beginning the car begins sputtering and he's like, "oh right, you're thirsty" and reached under an…

When I was younger here in the Netherlands a lot of us had tweaked motorcycles/scooters that would go much faster than the allowed cap of 50km/h. Many had a "cop switch". Cops suspecting you messed with the engine would put the scooter on a test belt to measure its maximum speed. The cop switch would instantly cap it to the allowed speed. Mine was hidden in the left mirror, a minor adjustment would activate it.

Sounds like a VW: behaves differently under test.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#408

Post by dghlsakjg »

memetomancer wrote: post #143
K0balt wrote: post #84

1.2 million grant for this? Now I’ve seen grift, but come on. I want to hire their grant writer. Literally a relay in the starter lead. This looks like one of my afternoon projects, and I’m not even joking. I have a 1990s montero diesel and it leaks power, and I often forget to disconnect the terminal. So I bought a relay from AliExpress (same one shown in this photo but one size up) and hooked it up with an esp32 an…

This is a frustrating yet common sort of take. Yes, this is simple, as the article clearly points out. Yes it is obvious in retrospect. But did you do anything with your brilliant work besides bodge your terrible car a few more miles down the road? There is value to developing the entire system... to ensuring the keypad mechanism is reasonably robust and tamper proof. There is value to understanding the vehicle as a…

There are dozens of similar mechanisms for sale on Amazon/aliexpress. A car alarm with an immobilizer is more advanced than this “innovation”.

They are claiming that the novel part is using voltage fluctuations to unarm the immobilizer and claiming that it requires less installation since the signaler device can plug directly into the cigarette outlet. A wireless relay requires the same cuttoff relay installation as their “new” idea, but is even more convenient because you don’t have to install a bodged together keypad on the cigarette lighter, and short your electrical system to cause voltage fluctuations.

They have blown through 1.2mm in grant money and their product is a bunch of prototype parts from a $50 arduino starter kit. It isn’t polished, it isn’t ready for consumers, it is a single prototype.

I guess the idea of causing voltage fluctuations is novel, but they sort of reinvented a $30 wheel for 1.2 million.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#409

Post by bscphil »

jtriangle wrote: post #245
master-lincoln wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By making it hard to obtain weapons. The US thinking to me seams to go along the lines of handing out nuclear weapons to everybody so forces are balanced...

For 500 bucks worth of crypto anyone in the world can get a reasonably competent full auto AK with a box of milsurp ammo. If that's your definition of "hard", I'd say you're setting that bar far too low.

And the overwhelming majority of people, including thieves, don't do this, because the raised barrier to entry makes gun crimes vastly less attractive. Combine that with a broad social safety net that reduces poverty, and you miraculously get homicide rates dropping through the floor: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_countries_by_...

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#410

Post by akira2501 »

hutzlibu wrote: post #112
knodi123 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only some people have the skills and tools to open them - so they are useful at keeping most people out, No, not really. A large part of the security of locks comes from most people not knowing that they have the tools and skills to open them. It's like if everyone taped their door shut, and we depended on most people not knowing that tape is easily removed. My kid accidentally locked us out of the house the other…

Erm, maybe the locks in germany(europe) are different - but what you describe I only know from very old or cheap locks, no one would use for a front door (insurance would not accept that).

> (insurance would not accept that).

Which is always hilarious to me considering insurance has no problem with glass windows or fenced in backyards.

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