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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#401

Post by jcrash »

naizarak wrote: post #330
StillBored wrote: post #315

A lot of people going on about the game controller, which itself wouldn't bother me if there was a direct connection way to control it too (aka via the touchscreens). What bothers me more and is clear as day in those pictures are things like the screws into the carbon fiber pressure hull holding the screens up. There was someone (ex test engineer?) on reddit yesterday talking about a few things, but what really stuck…

That's just a decorative shell. You really think they drilled into their pressure hull?

> That’s just a marketing strategy. You really think they believe it’s unsinkable?

Although I would be surprised if they drilled into the hull, I wouldn’t be THAT surprised.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#402

Post by windowshopping »

xwdv wrote: post #393
windowshopping wrote: post #390

Can anyone who knows something about this industry answer a question? I know nothing about it and I was surprised to read about this situation because I would have assumed a submersible would be in fairly constant sonar contact with its surface vessel. I would've thought it would be followed a rigidly planned route and its location relative to the surface ship would be well understood at all times, i.e. "you are 3508…

The sea is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. The only thing bigger is space.

Sorry but this doesn't really answer my question. I know the sea is vast. Yet we are able to navigate it consistently. Why is this vessel unable to stay in contact with its parent and relay its relative location?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#404

Post by brutusborn »

reaperman wrote: post #366
javajosh wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. As I get older, I see this sentiment as very naive. The tacit assumption seems to be that there is an agency, a government, an organization, that would review and approve such endeavors. But that's just not how the world works. You can't stop people from going to sea, or sending contraptions to t…

There’s a difference between Jacques Cousteau building a janky submarine rig for himself vs. Creating a business model of selling tickets to random strangers on that janky submarine.

There is definitely a difference, but it doesn’t really matter philosophically speaking.

If people want to take huge risks, then so be it. Whether they build the sub themselves or pay and give that responsibility to a proxy, it is still up to them to make their own risk assessment.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#405

Post by jacurtis »

javajosh wrote: post #356
proggy wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. If they had encountered a program-destroying but non-catastrophic failure earlier on, it is possible we wouldn't be looking at one of the many horrific outcomes that this incident will likely resolve to. Looking at the accounts reported to date, the OceanGate engineering culture was basically non-…

>It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. As I get older, I see this sentiment as very naive. The tacit assumption seems to be that there is an agency, a government, an organization, that would review and approve such endeavors. But that's just not how the world works. You can't stop people from going to sea, or sending contraptions to t…

As I have moved through my career and been in charge of larger and larger companies, I continue to be surprised how much of what you would expect is critical infrastructure that affects many people is being "cobbled" together.

I've worked at some companies that manage huge systems that affects tens of millions of people, which cause extremely severe problems if they break, and they are "cobbled" together with a surprising amount of metaphorical bubble gum and duct tape.

Every time I go somewhere new, I assume they have their shit together and I am surprised every time.

So no, it doesn't surprise me that an operation like this was cobbled together in the same fashion.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#406

Post by MPSimmons »

hunson_abadeer wrote: post #341
rwmj wrote: post #46

There's a BBC documentary from last year which I just watched: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fpz9zw and honestly a lot of it seems quite amateur hour. One of the steering motors was fitted backwards. When they discovered this, at the bottom of the ocean and a few hundred feet from Titanic, the solution they used was to hold the gamepad at right angles to compensate. That time they proceeded with the tour and mad…

Maybe so, but it's easy to say this after the fact. When kludges like this work, we admire "scrappy" and "ingenious" engineers who are finding ways to launch rockets or build submarines or medical devices or whatever for fraction the price. It's only when it blows up that it turns from "ingenuity" into "amateur hour". People who participated in this knew the risks. They fucked up. None of us would have designed a bet…

Scrappy is overcoming adversity by improvising and solving the problem with what you have.

This would have been a scrappy solution for a sub in a pool where there was a chance for help. You don't take paying customers on a scrappy sub to the bottom of the ocean.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#407

Post by StillBored »

naizarak wrote: post #330
StillBored wrote: post #315

A lot of people going on about the game controller, which itself wouldn't bother me if there was a direct connection way to control it too (aka via the touchscreens). What bothers me more and is clear as day in those pictures are things like the screws into the carbon fiber pressure hull holding the screens up. There was someone (ex test engineer?) on reddit yesterday talking about a few things, but what really stuck…

That's just a decorative shell. You really think they drilled into their pressure hull?

I mean how should I know? The point is that I suspect there could be another option, which is that the pressure hull could have failed without imploding.

So, yes it seems insane, and having seen pictures which look both like that is a liner and ones where it looks like its not, I don't know. There is very clearly an outer shell offset from the pressure hull. Whats on the inside isn't as clear, but I'm not sure why they would be running cables out of the floor when they could just be running them out closer to the arm/etc if there is space behind.

Although from a human comfort perspective, I'm not sure why there isn't a little foot well/bench either. There is obviously stuff under the floor, but it also looks fairly hollow too.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#408

Post by brutusborn »

Aeolun wrote: post #365
javajosh wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is simply unbelievable that the company was even able to get to the point of diving to such depths with humans aboard. As I get older, I see this sentiment as very naive. The tacit assumption seems to be that there is an agency, a government, an organization, that would review and approve such endeavors. But that's just not how the world works. You can't stop people from going to sea, or sending contraptions to t…

You’d expect companies that sell these kinds of tours for 250k a pop to be vetted though? If it’s uncle bob in his garage I’d be fine with lack of regulation, but when he starts commercially selling his trips he’d need to pass safety standards.

No, you’d only expect that if you have authoritarian values.

In a truly free world, people are allowed to make dumb, risky decisions.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#409

Post by jart »

ehnto wrote: post #377
hunson_abadeer wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so, but it's easy to say this after the fact. When kludges like this work, we admire "scrappy" and "ingenious" engineers who are finding ways to launch rockets or build submarines or medical devices or whatever for fraction the price. It's only when it blows up that it turns from "ingenuity" into "amateur hour". People who participated in this knew the risks. They fucked up. None of us would have designed a bet…

The major difference is serving the public I suppose. I would admire a scrappy vessel for research (SV Seeker for example) but if you are essentially building a transport service for the consumers, you are now being irresponsible. All credit to SV Seeker, it is a wildly impressive project, but I don't think they would be mad if I suggest they had the resolver spirit while putting that vessel together.

Are you saying consumers lives matter more than researchers?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#410

Post by AmericanChopper »

Aeolun wrote: post #370
hunson_abadeer wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so, but it's easy to say this after the fact. When kludges like this work, we admire "scrappy" and "ingenious" engineers who are finding ways to launch rockets or build submarines or medical devices or whatever for fraction the price. It's only when it blows up that it turns from "ingenuity" into "amateur hour". People who participated in this knew the risks. They fucked up. None of us would have designed a bet…

> None of us would have designed a better submarine I dunno. I would never go with wireless over cabled, certainly not as my primary steering method, and it sure as hell wouldn’t be the only method onboard to control the thing. Maybe it’s better if these things are build by paranoid instead of adventurous people?

The use of a wireless input is a bit suspect, but the headline seems rather sensational to me. What’s wrong with using an inexpensive logitech component? The critical systems in my car are filled with cheap off-the-shelf components.
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