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Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

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Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#401

Post by pleb_nz »

nixarn wrote: post #319
jancsika wrote: post #148

Translation: luxury vehicles are the future of car sales. Model Y is 2 times as expensive as a Corolla. Plus you can go and find an older Corolla with 100k+ miles on it and pay perhaps $5k cash for it, then drive it for another 50-100k. I don't see people in the service industry picking up a used Tesla, now or in the foreseeable future.

Although the purchase price is higher, lifetime is not much different. https://thedriven.io/2023/04/27/tesla-model-3-total-cost-of-... And the Model Y is cheaper than the Toyota Rav4 which is in the same category. So cheaper purchase price, and no annual oil changes, cheap miles (at least over in Finland where gas is 2e/liter, 8.14usd/gallon and electricity is around 10euro cents/kwh).

RAV4s are approx 40k where I come from, while Tesla is 70k+. Are you teslas cheap or RaVs overpriced?

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#402

Post by nindalf »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #397
resolutebat wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in the market, go for a couple of test drives. The competition is mostly regular ICE cars with a battery bolted on, while Teslas are designed from ground up as EVs and it shows throughout in ways big and small. We were originally leaning towards getting a Polestar, but the difference between driving one and a Tesla is night and day.

> The competition is mostly regular ICE cars with a battery bolted on, Most automakers have long since stopped basing their electric cars on platforms designed for ICE cars that have have EV components badly squeezed into whatever space they can 'find'. They've been making platforms designed specifically to include EV drivetrain components for a while, and many have shifted to EV-specific platforms. There's also lite…

> The Ford Lightning? It's largely based off the F150.

Is it? Feels like it was designed to be an EV, considering it has a massive frunk.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#403

Post by acchow »

jacurtis wrote: post #57
gnicholas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the extent that EVs last longer with very low maintenance costs, people will likely keep them even longer than they would keep other cars. And if Tesla can accelerate purchases of people who are considering getting an EV, they can drain the pool of potential EV buyers before other manufacturers are fully up and running. As a result, other manufacturers will have to anticipate lower sales numbers, which means they…

Whether EVs last longer is yet to be seen. The batteries are a huge flaw in their ability to last long term. Replacing the batteries are likely a $10k+ cost, meaning that as cars get older it may not be worth doing. Imagine having a car worth $8k because it is 10 years old and needing to spend $10k on it to update the batteries. Would it make sense? Or would you just buy a car worth $18k instead? People willing to dr…

Replacing the battery is still too labor intensive. They need to simplify it and speed it up. Ideally, a machine does most of the work.

In which you’re mostly left with the cost of the battery itself, which today is about $7k. But in 5 years will be $4k

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#404

Post by moonchrome »

nixarn wrote: post #319
jancsika wrote: post #148

Translation: luxury vehicles are the future of car sales. Model Y is 2 times as expensive as a Corolla. Plus you can go and find an older Corolla with 100k+ miles on it and pay perhaps $5k cash for it, then drive it for another 50-100k. I don't see people in the service industry picking up a used Tesla, now or in the foreseeable future.

Although the purchase price is higher, lifetime is not much different. https://thedriven.io/2023/04/27/tesla-model-3-total-cost-of-... And the Model Y is cheaper than the Toyota Rav4 which is in the same category. So cheaper purchase price, and no annual oil changes, cheap miles (at least over in Finland where gas is 2e/liter, 8.14usd/gallon and electricity is around 10euro cents/kwh).

Where are you getting these prices ? RAV4 is a lower end of price for the category here, even Model 3 is more expensive.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#405

Post by londons_explore »

fps-hero wrote: post #351
tshaddox wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not convinced by the common wisdom that “consumers demand longer battery range.” That’s especially irrelevant to the “second car” market which surely must be pretty big. I think it comes down more to how ridiculously cheap gas is (despite incessant complaints) and how long it would take most people to come out ahead even just buying a hybrid instead of a pure EV. It sure would be nice if gas were more expensive!

It seems that EVs are stuck in the range wars, the headline spec for an EV above all else is its kWh and range. It’s ridiculous, no ICE car gets marketed by range, and if they did you’d find that EVs are about on par range wise, they are just less convenient to refuel. The value proposition of a hybrid makes EVs difficult to stomach, why get one EV when you can get two hybrids for the same price? Toyota will 100% jum…

EV's range wars matter to consumers because charging at home can be a quarter of the cost of charging at a supercharger.

If your ICE car gasoline cost 4x the price at any gas station except your home one, then you too would want a tank as big as possible.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#406

Post by ChatGTP »

simondotau wrote: post #381
ChatGTP wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant to say in the sports car category.

Tesla currently sells zero cars in the sports car category. I guess it could be possible for Toyota to outsell zero with an electric BMW Supra.

They don’t sell a sports car but they also kind of sell sports cars.

Everything they sell seems to be a bit if everything. I find their cars really ugly.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#407

Post by moonchrome »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #361
oblio wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will, soon. About 30 car manufacturers are entering the EV arena by 2026 and there isn't enough room for all of them at the top.

I don’t have data on this, but my subjective impression is that over the last several years, the number of manufacturers selling EVs and the price of EVs have both increased at the same time. Of course, additional supply should normally decrease prices, but maybe there’s something weird going on. Here are some possible mechanisms I dreamed up: 1. Could the various manufacturers (collectively bringing lots of cash to…

I think the constraint here is battery manufacturing capacity. If there was enough batteries available cheaply you would see budget electric cars. Meanwhile if there is a constraint it makes sense to allocate capacity to highest margin lines.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#408

Post by londons_explore »

sundvor wrote: post #384
jancsika wrote: post #148

Translation: luxury vehicles are the future of car sales. Model Y is 2 times as expensive as a Corolla. Plus you can go and find an older Corolla with 100k+ miles on it and pay perhaps $5k cash for it, then drive it for another 50-100k. I don't see people in the service industry picking up a used Tesla, now or in the foreseeable future.

It might be "2 times as expensive" up front, but not for the TCO. People really need to remember maintenance costs over the ownership period. In a Tesla all you're really paying for is tyre rotation / alignment / rubber replacements, and air filters. Plus the electricity, in place of fuel. The savings add up significantly.

People who care about price don't pay $3k/year on car servicing at a car dealer... They buy some reliable model and pay $50 for an oil change every other year.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#409

Post by Grazester »

gnicholas wrote: post #55
op00to wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would EVs last longer?

People would keep them longer if they don't have to do fairly expensive preventative maintenance on belts, transmission, etc. There is of course the battery to worry about, and it remains to be seen how this will play out over decades.

Expensive maintenance in belts and transmissions? As in changing a belt and fluid? That should cost $300 tops for both. One done every 100k miles the other 50-100(Toyota recommends changing the fluid at that 90k intervals but it's preventative for me). Depending on the car(my Toyota) you can do both yourself on a Saturday evening for about $100

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#410

Post by consp »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #397
resolutebat wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in the market, go for a couple of test drives. The competition is mostly regular ICE cars with a battery bolted on, while Teslas are designed from ground up as EVs and it shows throughout in ways big and small. We were originally leaning towards getting a Polestar, but the difference between driving one and a Tesla is night and day.

> The competition is mostly regular ICE cars with a battery bolted on, Most automakers have long since stopped basing their electric cars on platforms designed for ICE cars that have have EV components badly squeezed into whatever space they can 'find'. They've been making platforms designed specifically to include EV drivetrain components for a while, and many have shifted to EV-specific platforms. There's also lite…

The Ford Mach-E is a modified C2 platform with lots of modifications but definitely not a fresh design. The comparable C2 combustion platform would be the Third gen Kuga/ Fourth gen Escape/Focus.
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