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More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

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Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#401

Post by mtrower »

xyzelement wrote: post #92

A few posts in this thread talk about the signaling value of college and I wanted to share a thought on that. When's the last time you saw someone wear a suit? For me, most people I see in suits now days are town car drivers. Because that's who needs to signal something (reliability?) to me in a low context environment. People stopped wearing suits at work, even for interviews, because the signaling value of a suit i…

> People stopped wearing suits at work, even for interviews, because the signaling value of a suit is zero.

In fact it's become an anti-signal in software; people look at you funny. I actually failed an interview once because I wore a suit.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#402

Post by mkl »

wolverine876 wrote: post #386
mkl wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide It's not an extreme statement, just a brief description of well-known events.

The statement didn't describe the Cambodian genocide. How about backing up the actual claim?

I suggest you read the article. If that doesn't answer your question I think you and I are interpreting the claim differently.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#403

Post by revelio »

happytesd8889 wrote: post #265
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I mean an actual class in critical thinking. It consisted of several things, but mostly things like basic logic, fallacies and so on. In other words, neither of three options listed.

Oh okay that makes a lot of sense. I had a required course in philosophy that was essentially just that as well. I suppose that is why I'm confused when the term is used, since I don't think I would use the term critical thinking for avoiding logical fallacies. A better term might be "not wrong thinking". Of course this also should take into account that some things we call logical fallacies probably shouldn't be con…

You're right. Academics and graduates are terrible for claiming universities teach critical thinking, yet never stating exactly what they mean or how they think they're doing that. Maybe an obscure philosophy class tries, but the vast majority of students don't take that and the claim is made about a college education in general, not philosophy classes specifically.

Seems to me like it's a self-defeating argument. If they were really teaching critical thinking as a skill, degree holders would immediately start arguing with them about this vague and poorly thought out claim, but in practice people just nod along.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#404

Post by loldk »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

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Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#405

Post by pdntspa »

bumby wrote: post #308
pdntspa wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How dumb is your expected audience if that test required a "good luck!" It's like basic math....

> it’s like basic math Did you continue to read it? Because it covers other topics. Without using the internet, can you name the eligibility requirements of the Gov. of Kentucky? How about five county officers and their principle duties? I think your initial response belies a deeper problem we struggle with. Our attention span has shortened and social media has biased us towards more course interactions.

That's all shit that I am sure I would be able to answer if I had paid attention in class. Which is what they are trying to test.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#406

Post by revelio »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #227
zoogeny wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post makes me consider what other avenues to achieve the growth of intellectual souls and exposure to depth of thought could exist other than paid-for highly-structured institutions. I think people wax poetically about their own experiences without really considering the experiences of others. We've had free public libraries for centuries now. We've had a pretty open Internet for decades. There is literally noth…

I hear it used to be that there was a culture of serious working-class learning in England. Like, the barbers in the shop would pay some street-kid to read them books -- there was no TV -- while they cut hair. And the cabbie could get into a conversation about Kant or something with his passenger. Maybe just to mess with them, but still.

The surprisingly intellectual cabbie is practically a trope. They get to talk to a lot of different people so can end up learning all sorts of things you wouldn't expect.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#407

Post by rufus_foreman »

azinman2 wrote: post #56
phpisthebest wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have conflated college with education. One can get education, build professional networks, etc with out college and importantly one can go to college complete a degree program while receiving zero education. many (most) Colleges is more of a social guild than it is an educational ventures

Very few on their own would get anywhere close to what a college gives you in terms of an education. Particularly in ways that are far broader than what you’d do professionally. Keep in mind college is 4 years of education on a daily basis.

"According to one survey conducted by the National Survey of Student Engagement, most college students spend an average of 10–13 hours/week studying, or less than 2 hours/day"

"A recent study showed that college students spend between 8 to 10 hours a day using a cell phone. Every day."

I agree with the parent comment. You have conflated college with education.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#408

Post by wolverine876 »

mkl wrote: post #402
wolverine876 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statement didn't describe the Cambodian genocide. How about backing up the actual claim?

I suggest you read the article. If that doesn't answer your question I think you and I are interpreting the claim differently.

I'm not reading articles (especially Wikipedia) and trying to infer your argument for you. You state it if you've got it. Stop making excuses. Assume I know about the Cambodian genocide.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#409

Post by zinckiwi »

OJFord wrote: post #369
Balgair wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the reccomendation! I am a bit confused though. Is 'a first' the top score on an exam or like a suma cum laude ? Free link to the book here: https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/waughe-bridesheadrevisited1945/w...

People sometimes talk about it in terms of exams in the sense that they'd achieve a first overall if that exam was 'it', or that it brings their average up etc. - but strictly speaking you can only achieve first class (or any other) honours for the degree as a whole. It's commonly (but not necessarily) >70% overall. Equivalent to achieving some high GPA range.

American translation: graduating with anything other than a 4.0 or a 1.0 is wasted.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#410

Post by loldk »

71a54xd wrote: post #35
Mc91 wrote: post #9

I have been programming for a Fortune 500 company for four years. Not long ago, I applied for a job at another Fortune 500 company. HR really had only question for me, they saw on my resume I did not have a college degree listed, and did I have one? I said I went through most of college towards a Bachelors in Computer Science but dropped out before graduation. I did not get the job, although I don't know if that's wh…

Hate to say it, but this is why I'm incredibly glad I didn't drop out of college even though I had a solid gig ready to go. I knew I wasn't cut out for being an perpetual founder and that I'd definitely encounter greater challenges not having a degree than the challenges standing between me and my degree at that point in time. ($7k and 1 year of my life with classes I wasn't sure I could stomach). Wish you the best,…

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