BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout • Hacker News Board

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#401

Post by Nitramp » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 11:59 AM UTC

miroljub wrote: post #95

mihaaly wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently it struck too close to home. Unleashing tax officials on an organization painting a negative picture (well, not, Modi and accoplice paint it, the BBC only presents it) is a failed attempt of masquerading an authoritarian government overstepping their limits of governance. If they were honest and not coward they would simply tell: 'Shouldn't uncover our dirty laundry, get out of here or will get hurt!' They…

> Unleashing tax officials on an organization painting a negative picture (well, not, Modi i and accoplice paint it, the BBC only presents it) is a failed attempt of masquerading an authoritarian government overstepping their limits of governance. Isn't that what every government do? Remember that Al Capone went to jail because of tax issues, the government couldn't prove anything he was accused to. If you look at Ge…

> If you look at Germany, Michael Ballweg is sitting in jail (without trial) for tax evasion accusations. The fact that the government didn't like his movement that protested against unconstitutional anti-covid measures was not enough reason to put him there.

I think you have that backwards.

Ballweg is in jail because allegedly he took in donations to support a cause, but then (ab)used them for himself personally, defrauding the donors and evading taxation. That's illegal, and thus he's in jail.

Indeed protesting Covid is not enough to put you in jail, because that's not actually illegal. You're insinuating the government chose to persecute him for his political views. That's a pretty bold claim that I think would need substantiation.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#402

Post by dctoedt » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 12:38 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #383

tptacek wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Meanwhile, Hindu nationalists have been courting allies against their Leftist antagonists, which sometimes results in strange connections to Western white nationalists", writes the Taki's Magazine contributor. Perhaps in this one instance, the West's notion of what liberal democracy should look like is correct. Not every idea the liberal west has is, but the alternatives to these two ideas are horrible.

The connection to white nationalism is specious. Everyone in this story is brown. The differences are about beliefs and culture, not skin color. It also projects western circumstances onto places where it doesn’t make sense. Multiculturalism is a cultural adaptation to America being a post-colonial, post-slavery, immigrant nation. In the rest of the west it’s an adaptation to post-colonial immigration patterns. The m…

> My surname didn’t make its way 3,000 miles from the Middle East to Bangladesh through a process that was very nice.

Now you've got me curious ....

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#403

Post by SanjayMehta » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 1:05 PM UTC

dctoedt wrote: post #402

rayiner wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The connection to white nationalism is specious. Everyone in this story is brown. The differences are about beliefs and culture, not skin color. It also projects western circumstances onto places where it doesn’t make sense. Multiculturalism is a cultural adaptation to America being a post-colonial, post-slavery, immigrant nation. In the rest of the west it’s an adaptation to post-colonial immigration patterns. The m…

> My surname didn’t make its way 3,000 miles from the Middle East to Bangladesh through a process that was very nice. Now you've got me curious ....

Bangladesh used to be East Bengal. Through a series of demographic changes, it became East Pakistan in 1947 and then Bangladesh in 1971.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#404

Post by toyg » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 1:18 PM UTC

arp242 wrote: post #394

toyg wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tories hate the BBC for being a hive of lefties, and slowly strangle its source of funds; Labour hate the BBC for being partisan to Tories, and will loudly shout they're being ignored at every turn. Apart from a handful of highly-visible figures (Dimbleby, Kuenssberg, Neil), who are easily ignored, the truth is somewhat in the middle. Occasionally too much in the middle, like on Brexit, but in the middle nonetheless.

The article is a bit long, rambling, and rankly not very well written, but it's definitely not a "Tory complains left-wing bias in BBC"-type of article. Example: "And here we arrive at a truly awesome, structural bias that is barely guessed at by journalists themselves. The fact is that it is simply understood by ‘mainstream’ media at election time that foreign policy – especially our leaders’ high crimes – is someho…

Those passages are exemplary of why I'd struggle to take anything seriously coming from that site. A number of largely baseless statements are exposed with breathless language.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#405

Post by tptacek » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #383

tptacek wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Meanwhile, Hindu nationalists have been courting allies against their Leftist antagonists, which sometimes results in strange connections to Western white nationalists", writes the Taki's Magazine contributor. Perhaps in this one instance, the West's notion of what liberal democracy should look like is correct. Not every idea the liberal west has is, but the alternatives to these two ideas are horrible.

The connection to white nationalism is specious. Everyone in this story is brown. The differences are about beliefs and culture, not skin color. It also projects western circumstances onto places where it doesn’t make sense. Multiculturalism is a cultural adaptation to America being a post-colonial, post-slavery, immigrant nation. In the rest of the west it’s an adaptation to post-colonial immigration patterns. The m…

Just to be clear: Razib Khan makes the connection to white nationalism, not me. It happens that Razib Khan is himself probably a racial supremacist. But I didn't even have pull any of this in from Khan's background; it was in the article you chose to cite.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#406

Post by arp242 » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

arp242 wrote: post #393

rozab wrote: post #133

The bizarre thing is how balanced the documentary actually is if you watch it. Many senior BJP officials are given plenty of time to defend their case. It focuses on provable events, things which were captured on video or public legal proceedings. If this has received such extreme backlash, I'd hate to see what happens to an actual opinionated news outlet

My biggest gripe with the documentary is that it simplifies things too much, and in some cases IMHO even misrepresented things. The way it presents things is, crudely put, "Hindus and Muslims were living happily together in India, and then Modi came along, stoked tensions, and things all went south". While Modi definitely played a part and has much to answer for, things are significantly more complex than that. "Musl…

* I meant the say "by focusing on only a specific set of events instead of a more complete picture it was quite UNbalanced." in that last paragraph (too late to edit).

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#407

Post by mikehotel » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 3:26 PM UTC

naravara wrote: post #291

mikehotel wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think there is a rise in fascist actions and rhetoric in India? And that the majority of Indians are threatened by this? Thanks for correcting me on OBC and Dalits. The framework is definitely problematic. And it adds another layer of complexity to racial, religious, and economic demographics. Thanks for prompting me to learn more about this. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-ab...

I would hesitate to characterize everything happening as fascist since that's a loaded term and I think it brings in a lot of baggage when transposed cross-culturally that confuses more than it clears up. I think there has been a rise in extremism and political violence that is largely, but not exclusively, driven by the hard right. And I think Modi has a particularly callous, realpolitik approach to governance that…

I appreciate your thoughtful reply.

Why do you feel it necessary to deflect criticisms instead of addressing them directly? The purported rigging of elections in the US does not justify the eroding of democratic institutions in India [0]. Claims of increasing evangelism and strictness among Christians and Muslims doesn’t justify the large number of public lynchings of minorities [1] and politically motivated prosecutions of media outlets perceived to be critical of the BJP or their affiliated organizations.

Several organizations have recognized this deterioration of Democratic institutions and adjusted their ratings accordingly [0]. I understand you may think this is a conspiracy against India, but be assured it is not. Western countries have a deep seated interest in preventing unfettered nationalism and fascism from causing a widespread conflagration.

The term fascism is not used flippantly [2]. The RSS was modeled on Mussolini’s National Fascist Party. The RSS and the currently ruling BJP have a symbiotic relationship. Perhaps you were referring to the RSS when you say the BJP is not in the drivers seat.

You are well spoken and obviously care for India. I urge you to take a more critical look at what is happening in India. The international community is not trying to perpetuate colonialism or hold India to a unique standard. They want a vibrant trading partner that upholds human rights and rule of law. They also do not want to see a genocide occur in a country that is the worlds largest democracy.

0. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-56393944

1. https://dotodatabase.com/

2. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/20/hindu-supremac...

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#408

Post by berdario » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #70

berdario wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not only Sharp, the BBC is widely known for being partisan https://www.medialens.org/2019/the-arrogance-of-bbc-news/ Of course "most corrupt organization in the world" is hyperbole, and I wouldn't discount this specific investigation on BJP (but I have limited interest in that, since I haven't been to India in years) But blaming others of whataboutism is harmful, since it stifles deserved criticism. Es…

Tories hate the BBC for being a hive of lefties, and slowly strangle its source of funds; Labour hate the BBC for being partisan to Tories, and will loudly shout they're being ignored at every turn. Apart from a handful of highly-visible figures (Dimbleby, Kuenssberg, Neil), who are easily ignored, the truth is somewhat in the middle. Occasionally too much in the middle, like on Brexit, but in the middle nonetheless.

> the truth is somewhat in the middle

True, but what we're witnessing now is a middle, not that middle...

(moreover, if both Labour and Tories feel offended, that doesn't mean that the BBC is actually being fair in doing its job, https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-offensive-truth )

Anyhow, thinking that the centrist position is also somehow more representative and enlightned is a fallacy that has been already expounded: https://nick-barlow.medium.com/the-centrist-fallacy-43434642...

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#409

Post by zakember » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

amriksohata wrote: post #59

DarthNebo wrote: post #17

Lol, could have just brushed this aside with a comment instead of outright censoring a globally available media. Like what do they expect, no Indian should ever watch it in India or something but it is fine if outside of India? This is how freedom of speech dies, bit by bit......

Because it could create communal disharmony and doesn't actually provide any further court admissible evidence.

So you agree that tax officials are being used to harass them for the documentary?

> it could create communal disharmony and doesn't actually provide any further court admissible evidence.

I'll wait for these tax officials to raid OpIndia and SwarajyaMag's offices soon as well then.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#410

Post by dctoedt » Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

SanjayMehta wrote: post #403

dctoedt wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My surname didn’t make its way 3,000 miles from the Middle East to Bangladesh through a process that was very nice. Now you've got me curious ....

Bangladesh used to be East Bengal. Through a series of demographic changes, it became East Pakistan in 1947 and then Bangladesh in 1971.

Yes, I'm old enough to remember the 1971 war of independence; I was wondering about Rayiner's surname that he mentioned as having migrated from the Middle East. (I could hazard a guess ....)