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Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

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Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#401

Post by LarryMullins »

Kukumber wrote: post #105
jrochkind1 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they control them with CIA agents [1*], so it is easier for them to do profiling rather than blocking it I don't understand what you're suggesting CIA agents are controlling. What is "them" in "they control them"? The article you link to involves surveillance (rather than control) by the FBI (rather than CIA).

They are in charge of the disinformation/moderation teams An example: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aarondberman/ They are in most social media companies So they can decide what to ban that could hinder their national social order Something Turkey can't do with Twitter, hence a ban, just like the US with TikTok and the pseudo "algorithm" With the amount of misinformation that spreads in Twitter, it is the right thing t…

> it is the right thing to do

You had me nodding until this part. Yes, twitter is filled with misinformation. But government censorship is more dangerous than misinformation. Governments have killed more people than anything else short of heart attacks and cancer. Governments murdered hundreds of millions of people in the 20th century; giving governments the power to censor whatever the government deems to be misinformation is insanely dangerous. The most dangerous kind of misinformation is that which is promulgated by the government itself.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#402

Post by alphanullmeric »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #376
alphanullmeric wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, your comparison is just not equivalent. A sale is a transfer of property. We enforce the implicit contract that goes along with that. The buyer will pay, the seller will deliver, the product is accurate, etc. This discussion is about speech, for which no such contract exists. If you disagree, then you should have no problem arresting people for showing off a 3 watt bulb they claim to be 5 watts.

Holy false equivalent, Batman! The poster's point was pretty simple: there is some speech which doesn't deserve to be fully protected to the highest possible level. Untrue commercial speech like false advertising is pretty much in that category. This is why we allow attorneys-general to bring cases against false advertisers, for example. Usually the remedy is monetary damages, but injunctive relief is also available.…

Is there a sale or not? If there's not a sale it's not advertising. If it's not advertising it should be allowed, false or not. If it is advertising it's not just speech. You lack the consistency to make your argument work. So again, I guess you're fine with arresting people over light bulbs.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#403

Post by efnx »

foronetimeonly1 wrote: post #83
can16358p wrote: post #19

Turkish here. This is unbelievable, but totally expected from the current "democractic" government. Social media usage is very high in Türkiye and people are coordinating using social media (mainly Twitter) for rescue operations in near realtime. I'm pretty much sure some people will literally die under wreckage because of communication interruptions as the result of this block. (For anyone telling to use VPN, yeah,…

The Diyanet said "Do not look to social media for hope in finding loved ones, look to Allah". A few minutes later twitter was blocked. I think god is jealous of Twitter today.

…so do nothing and forget about them in other words?

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#404

Post by wtetzner »

beefield wrote: post #87
golergka wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of many, many reasons why western countries and social media companies should not normalise censorship re-branded like "fighting disinformation".

How do you propose western countries and social media companies fight disinformation?

There isn’t a way to fight disinformation other than helping people get better at critical thinking.

Using censorship to fight disinformation just means we’ve picked some group of people that get to decide what the “truth” is.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#405

Post by kibwen »

dvt wrote: post #347
kibwen wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit like saying "the darkness is bad, so the solution is light, and if the light ever becomes blinding, the solution is more light ". Speech is not the point, it's just a medium for useful information. More speech is only good to the extent that it proliferates useful information. If useless spam speech is used to overwhelm useful speech, then that undermines the whole point of the principle of free speech.…

> This is a bit like saying "the darkness is bad, so the solution is light, and if the light ever becomes blinding, the solution is more light" Completely untenable analogy. Why people say is that the solution is more speech is due to the antecedent concept of the marketplace of ideas and that, by and large, ideas are sifted via free speech and the good ones last while the bad ones die. You cannot have this sorting p…

Re: "the marketplace of ideas", there is a modern philosophy that ascribes mythical qualities to markets, but the fact is that markets are not magic, they are merely useful tools that are appropriate for some contexts and inappropriate for others. There are numerous ways markets can either fail or be worse than useless, and one of those ways is by obscuring information about the market, and it's increasingly trivial to use unfettered free speech to effectively censor any other market participants, thereby distorting the market.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#406

Post by Cyph0n »

weberer wrote: post #262
Cyph0n wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everyone focused on the umlaut? If you don’t have the button, use a “u” and move on.

They are completely different letters. You'd be misspelling it.

Context matters. Is it better to use Turkey then?

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#407

Post by alphanullmeric »

vkou wrote: post #354
alphanullmeric wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your scenario is not equivalent. A buyer and seller shake on an implicit contract when a purchase is made, and enforcement of a contract you agreed to is not censorship. A more accurate comparison would be me posting a picture of a 3 watt bulb online, claiming it is a 5 watt bulb. I don’t believe that should be illegal, and you would if you were consistent.

No, his scenario is not equivalent, but here's a few more: "Hello, this is just a reminder that your voting station will be open between 5 pm and 9 pm in (somewhere where it's not actually located), please remember to vote!" "Hello, if you would like a free ride to your voting station, please text us 'YES', and wait at (location) between X and Y pm (Nobody will show up)." "Hello, we have a great offer for auto insura…

Half of these scenarios are just variations of the comment I replied to. Again, there's a contract of sale. Your speech isn't being violated when you sign a contract promising you're selling what you claim to be selling.

As for the rest, you're free to make whatever lies you want about others. Free speech doesn't allow you to initiate force against others so I'm not particularly concerned with any of it. We have gun rights to deal with people that try to enter your house or attack you over your skin colour and space laser accusations.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#408

Post by kibwen »

kristiandupont wrote: post #363
dvt wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a bit like saying "the darkness is bad, so the solution is light, and if the light ever becomes blinding, the solution is more light" Completely untenable analogy. Why people say is that the solution is more speech is due to the antecedent concept of the marketplace of ideas and that, by and large, ideas are sifted via free speech and the good ones last while the bad ones die. You cannot have this sorting p…

>while the bad ones die. I am really not seeing this.

A.k.a. "the marketplace of ideas can remain irrational longer than free society can remain solvent".

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#409

Post by Cyph0n »

sk0g wrote: post #216
Cyph0n wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everyone focused on the umlaut? If you don’t have the button, use a “u” and move on.

The umlauted u is not just a u with some visual flair. "ue" instead would be a more accurate transliteration, but Tuerkiye looks... awkward.

Got it, but I’m saying that using “Turkiye” is better than using “Turkey”.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#410

Post by s1artibartfast »

tradertef wrote: post #321
radicaldreamer wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US State Dept has started using Türkiye for its communications...

Governments are different as they legally have to do it.

I don't think it's a legal requirement, they just choose to respect the wishes of the receiving government.
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