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The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#401

Post by prawn »

scotty79 wrote: post #125
vkk8 wrote: post #51

Anecdotally, I was (as probably many here were) ahead of the curve in digital devices usage when I started hanging out in IRC and various web forums as a teenager in early 2000s. At some point I noticed that just using computers induced some amount of anxiety compared to "old tech"; whenever there was some period of time when I used my computer less (like christmas, vacations, etc.) and joined back to the "world of t…

Ugh, I guess it varies from person but for me (nearly?) every human contact is somewhat stressful, even watching humans interact can be very stressful. Using devices is downright bliss and calmness in comparison. I'm so happy when I see people interacting with their devices. I feel they are more like me and I feel safer with them than with people who don't.

Not sure if it's true for everyone, but you can see this when you're staying with others or have guests. When they're gone, you can relax and just sit or read or continue a game you'd started or look at your phone guilt free. That's the calmness you mention. You're not starting/maintaining conversation, maintaining eye contact, am I wearing the right thing, etc.

But how much is that and how much is addiction to the device/content? For most people in 202x, I'd guess these things are part and parcel.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#402

Post by strawpeople »

monknomo wrote: post #340
strawpeople wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could explain the increase in suicides if not mental illness?

I'm not sure suicides strictly are the result of mental illness. I, for example, have an uncle that killed himself. He may have been clinically depressed, but mainly, he was an alcoholic. I think it's likely what depression he had would have resolved if he successfully dealt with his substance abuse problem. Did he die because he was mentally ill, or because drinking can be a pretty bad problem?

I guess it depends on whether you consider alcoholism to be a mental illness. It is listed as one in the DSM-V.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#404

Post by prawn »

COGlory wrote: post #378
codeslave13 wrote: post #337

My daughter hit her teens in2012. It was a horrible couple of years not just for her but from about 8th grade up. Our HS had a suicide wave. Many attepts (my daughter being one) and quite a few of those attempts were successful later. Thankfully my child responded well to therapy. This was in a high competitive HS IN NORTHERN VA. My thoughts on factors: Crazy parents pushing kids to try and get in TJ who had no busin…

What is 'TJ'?

I've googled around and not been able to come up with anything in the context of education. Teaching Journal? Therapeutic Jurisprudence?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#405

Post by lovecg »

nradov wrote: post #345
e40 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that was badly phrased. I was replying too quickly. Yes, the job market has roared back in the last couple of years, but before that it was cooler. But, I should have mentioned other things besides jobs. The world is a pretty bleak place, in a lot of ways. Yeah, the cold war was always hovering about, but it was not really something that my peers really worried about.

The world is less bleak now than it has ever been in human history. If you zoom out and look beyond the news headlines we as a species are doing pretty well. Rates of extreme poverty are down worldwide and relatively few people are starving to death or being killed in wars. The world still has a lot of problems but let's be objective about the data instead of succumbing to defeatist narratives.

This whole line of thinking strikes me as emotional reasoning: “I feel bad, therefore the world must be bleak”. People like to look for rational explanations for something that’s not very rational. These feelings of anxiety and depression are probably more correlated with things like lack of religious belief and overexposure to news media than with any facts about objective reality. Plenty of examples of “poor” (on paper) societies being happier on average.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#406

Post by nopeNopeNooope »

nradov wrote: post #218
jahsome wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly see value in comparing scars? Does that matter in any meaningful way? The worst stress of someone's life is the worst stress of their life. It's unproductive and petty to bicker about who has it worse. If life is stressful for anyone, regardless of status, title, age, etc. there's a good chance it's undeserved. The takeaway is to treat people better, not dismiss their stressors as less significant.

I honestly see value in having scars, both the physical and mental varieties. Scars create resilience. We saw this during the recent pandemic. The upper-middle class "high achieving, high anxiety" types who had never faced any real danger or hardship were the most likely to panic and demand all sorts of ridiculous lockdowns and mandates, even though the vast majority of them were never at any significant risk. Wherea…

[dead]

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#407

Post by codeslave13 »

COGlory wrote: post #378
codeslave13 wrote: post #337

My daughter hit her teens in2012. It was a horrible couple of years not just for her but from about 8th grade up. Our HS had a suicide wave. Many attepts (my daughter being one) and quite a few of those attempts were successful later. Thankfully my child responded well to therapy. This was in a high competitive HS IN NORTHERN VA. My thoughts on factors: Crazy parents pushing kids to try and get in TJ who had no busin…

What is 'TJ'?

Sorry. Thomas jefferson highschol. Ranked best in nation for a long time. It was very hard to get into

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#408

Post by woodruffw »

carabiner wrote: post #90
nluken wrote: post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

40% of high school students don't go to college (of any type). Of those, only a tiny portion are focused on elite universities. Many are just going to Long Beach State, University of Redlands and other 4 year schools that you've never heard of. They have lax admissions. Among adult Americans, only a third have bachelors degrees. Certainly the high pressure scholastic environment of certain high schools is not common.

You’re right, although I’ll point out that this doesn’t directly contradict what the GP said: it’s possible to both stress over your future and go to a less prominent school (or no school at all).

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#409

Post by prawn »

germinalphrase wrote: post #356
codeslave13 wrote: post #337

My daughter hit her teens in2012. It was a horrible couple of years not just for her but from about 8th grade up. Our HS had a suicide wave. Many attepts (my daughter being one) and quite a few of those attempts were successful later. Thankfully my child responded well to therapy. This was in a high competitive HS IN NORTHERN VA. My thoughts on factors: Crazy parents pushing kids to try and get in TJ who had no busin…

I taught at the high school level for about ten years before shifting into tech. I was always astounded by the level of devotion many families had toward traveling sports (notably hockey up here in Minnesota). Outside of truly elite athletic pipelines, I honestly believe competitive youth sports have gotten completely out of hand. Here’s to hoping my son grows up to be a mediocre athlete.

My brother recently retired after a career (~18-38ish) as a professional basketball player. It worked for him and there were opportunities to leverage contacts for employment after sport. But that was a 15+ year career. Anything too far short of that is a risk, IMO. Watching many of his peers defer tertiary study, or forgo jobs for training roles, or be out of the league after a few underpaid years while contemporaries were getting promoted with years of study or work under their belt - I figured you want your children to be very good or hobbyists playing social sport or to keep fit. Anything in the middle might just be distraction or disappointment.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#410

Post by nemo44x »

codeslave13 wrote: post #337

My daughter hit her teens in2012. It was a horrible couple of years not just for her but from about 8th grade up. Our HS had a suicide wave. Many attepts (my daughter being one) and quite a few of those attempts were successful later. Thankfully my child responded well to therapy. This was in a high competitive HS IN NORTHERN VA. My thoughts on factors: Crazy parents pushing kids to try and get in TJ who had no busin…

It’s so weird that so many people ruin the happiness in their lives trying to compete for a spot at an elite university so they can get in the fast lane to making money for a corporation as a VP or something. And for what? So they can have a bigger house or “better” vacations?

Why don’t we push kids to find happiness in whatever they do and that living in a bungalow in a working class area and driving used cars doesn’t really matter.

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