Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement • Hacker News Board

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#401

Post by deafpolygon » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 7:07 AM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #307

somedude895 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll preface this by saying that I don't like Meta and am very privacy-conscious. > it's also very possible that the business models are actually unpopular and people are upset after learning about them. I am 100% convinced - from people around me - that those who use FB and IG don't give a damn about privacy and would rather it be free of charge. This is clearly a small group of "elite people in the know" (which in…

> I am 100% convinced - from people around me - that those who use FB and IG don't give a damn about privacy and would rather it be free of charge. When Apple forced apps to implement App Tracking Transparency which asks a neutral, OS-provided question to the user, only 4% opted in. Furthermore, people generally don't care about privacy because they don't understand the ramifications of that decision (which is exactl…

> people generally don't care about privacy because they don't understand the ramifications of that decision

Every single time I point that out, I get told to show proof of such "ramifications". They just don't think they'll be impacted by this tracking, which is ridiculous. Even more strange is the position of "I have nothing to hide." - privacy != secrecy.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#402

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 8:22 AM UTC

pif wrote: post #167

jefftk wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be totally fine with a regulation where they had to ask before using personal data to show ads. The overreach is that the GDPR requires that the user be able to say "no" but still use the service -- you can't make use of the service conditional on accepting ads, and you can't require users to pay instead.

> you can't make use of the service conditional on accepting ads Edited for you: you can't make use of the service conditional on accepting personalized ads

[deleted]

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#403

Post by seydor » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 8:29 AM UTC

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #114

World party planning: China: I'll bring the hardware! US: I'll bring the software! EU: I'll bring the lawyers!

EU is first, with foolishly predictive tech regulation before it emerges. Like e.g. the requirement for AI to explain itself. GPT can surely explain to you very elaborately how they came to the wrong medical conclusion

But what you say is actually accurate, the globalized world (excepting russia) has settled to these roles for these 3 players. EU is more of a legacy player without an army (or strong production base) that still "upholds ideals" and sells this image for worldwide PR. But you see where this ends up, countries bribing EU politicians to improve their world PR by association.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#404

Post by andrewjl » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:33 AM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #6

[flagged]

> a hotbed of technological innovation

Sounds like the type of technological innovation we could use less of nowadays.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#405

Post by andrewjl » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 9:37 AM UTC

labrador wrote: post #332

I like Facebook targeted ads. They're more interesting than generic untargeted ads. When I was shopping for an electric bike Facebook showed me ebikes of the type I wanted (cargo) for weeks. It's convenient. Yesterday I made a comment on a hat ad (I didn't think any man except Walter White should wear a pork pie hat) and now all my ads are for hats. I didn't realize their were so many kinds of men's hats. I don't fee…

Not a problem, the policy allows giving you the choice to opt-in to the targeted ads.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#406

Post by mpweiher » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 10:17 AM UTC

charcircuit wrote: post #141

rolenthedeep wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the market" isn't some omnipotent magical force that inherently provides all options. Given the current status quo, it's pretty clear that "the market" isn't solving this problem. Legislation is needed because "the market" has failed to regulate itself. "the market" does not work for consumers, it's shaped for and by sellers. Left to its own devices, capitalism creates conditions that are explicitly harmful to the p…

>it's pretty clear that "the market" isn't solving this problem. Have you considered that it isn't being solved because consumers don't actually mind the extra tracking? All the tracking does is attempt to give them better ads. Better ads provide a better user experience. Personalized ads are a win win for both the company and the user.

> consumers don't actually mind the extra tracking?

Consumers can opt in to the tracking.

When Apple required opt-in, 10% opted in, 90% opted out.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#407

Post by mnw21cam » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 10:24 AM UTC

kcartlidge wrote: post #289

whimsicalism wrote: post #6

[flagged]

> requires continuous free-riding off of the US across a wide swath of sectors including healthcare and tech There's an element of that. However as this ruling shows (and some of us already realise) the opposite is true too. By illegally profiting off EU data and people, and siphoning all those profits away from the member states, these companies are actually free-riding off the EU population and economy. Hopefully t…

> Maybe then they'll be replaced with more honest business models. Which, incidentally, can include opting in to ads based on personal data if that is what people knowingly choose.

The GDPR requires that consent to use of personal data for other purposes must not affect the user experience for the main product. Therefore, the company must offer the main product without reference to any opting in to personalised ads. This effectively sets the monetary value of opting in to zero at the user/company interface.

An organisation could try and fund their operation through opt-ins, because the monetary value of opt-ins is still positive at the advertiser/company interface. However that fact encourages the company to use nefarious tactics on the users, which is clearly what has happened in this particular case. I'd like to see this incentive die, but I think that all the time this valuation remains positive there will be companies that try it on.

I get frustrated at the number of apps and web sites that place opt-in as a paywall to access. It's outrageously and explicitly illegal, but enforcement is lacking.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#408

Post by mnw21cam » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 10:27 AM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #306

red_admiral wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're contributing to the discussion, but I strongly disagree with you. In this case, according to the linked article, it seems to me like meta tried to rules-lawyer their way around the GDPR, and got told no, the words "contract" and "consent" mean exactly what they usually do. If you're testing the boundaries of a law for your own benefit, sometimes you get told you've overstepped it, that's life - not an…

"5 EUR/month but we'll give it for free if you agree to personalised ads" Is this an edge case? My understanding is that it's legal under GDPR.

It's specifically and explicitly illegal. You can't distinguish service based on consent, because then your consent is no longer consent, it's extortion.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#409

Post by pnt12 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 12:58 PM UTC

LelouBil wrote: post #303

rybosworld wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, this seems like an easy way to avoid addressing Europe's lack of it's own tech industry. If Europe wants more ethical tech, they should make an honest effort to create an environment that supports that. I.e., invest in their own tech industry.

I agree with you, investing in ethical tech is an important step. However if you look at what is happening today, with everyone having a google/instagram/etc account, and the power these companies have over the competition (because of unethical tactics) it is not feasible to actually compete with them. Legislation is needed to make *everyone* in the tech industry that operates in europe at the same (ethical) level. T…

Great point.

We also need to legislate against walled gardens to let other technologies flourish.

Breaking down companies would also be great. YouTube has been mostly crappy but operated at a loss , only alive due to backing by the Google colossus: how do you compete against that?

previously, not sure now

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#410

Post by pnt12 » Thu, Jan 05, 2023, 1:02 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #18

Nextgrid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we somehow ended up in a situation where spyware got effectively decriminalised doesn't mean it's a good situation especially in the long-term. If nobody is willing to pay for your product, maybe it shouldn't exist?

Spyware? This is about logging activity of users on the same app that you built, not tracking them across the internet. Writing down what someone does while interacting with your own business was never "criminalized" to begin with. Businesses do pay for this product. Unilaterally making tech products illegal after backlash in the media is precisely why capital is deallocated from Europe to other places with less reac…

I'm also against tracking users while on the app.

If we compare it to a store, I'm OK with minimal tracking, eg security cameras, but I'm not OK with keeping the recordings forever or tracking my individual behavior (which is already happening).