EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments • Hacker News Board

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#401

Post by stavros » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:05 PM UTC

isodev wrote: post #395

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WHO CARES if it "only has a few instances". I will never understand where people will say that having our right LITERALLY REMOVED somehow isn't eroding our freedom. It simply is, you are objectively less free now.

The uppercase tells me you have strong feelings about this and maybe I’m missing something obvious. Would you explain why my freedom will be diminished by this? I can still pay and buy whatever I want. It just happens faster and more secure.

Maybe you do, but not all countries function as well as yours. I'm Greek, and I remember a few years ago when we could only withdraw 50 euros a day from ATMs.

You're on the happy path, and wondering why anyone would complain when the path is so happy. The problem is what happens when that breaks down, and when that happens you definitely want to be able to use cash.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#402

Post by foxhill » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:05 PM UTC

expazl wrote: post #394

AHappyCamper wrote: post #225

This is obviously the first part of a major push to force us to use Central Bank Digital Currencies. Now that they are banning cash, we will be controlled like never before. This is the beginning of the end of freedom.

Where I live people in my generation have been primarily cashless at least the last quarter of a century, and yet we still significantly outrank the US in the freedom indexes, which isn't exactly a high bar these days, but still serves to underline that the typical American centrist argument that using primarily paper cash somehow improves freedom is wrong.

evidence suggests the optimal amount law breaking is non-zero. that’s going to be very difficult against a regime that can track the movements of all money.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#403

Post by Teandw » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

bakugo wrote: post #385

Teandw wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest for a second. There are very few instances where a person would ever 'need' to pay for something over €10k in physical cash?

Why does it matter what I "need"? Why is it any of your business what I do with my money? I should have the right to spend it how I want, it's mine.

It's not your money. It's partly mine and everyone else's in the country. Just like my money is partially yours. It's my business that you're paying your way in society in a correct manner so that I and others can benefit as part of a collective.

(Not that it's always fair but that's a different argument.)

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#404

Post by Dylan16807 » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

mdp2021 wrote: post #196

gattilorenz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, good ol’ slippery slope arguments

Yes. Good old "look where the trend is going, foresee the risks". Ah, remembering the surprise of upset people when they did not raise a suspect in front of bank clerks telling you "It's contactless, limited risk, 25u per transaction" (and already then the child-basic retort is "Times by how many transactions?"), and then were reached by the bank information that "owing to progress the limit is now raised to 50u / 10…

Are you complaining that the amount you could do in a single contactless transaction went up? I can't tell what you're arguing.

If you're talking about fees I thought those were capped a while ago and haven't increased.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#405

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:08 PM UTC

AHappyCamper wrote: post #225

This is obviously the first part of a major push to force us to use Central Bank Digital Currencies. Now that they are banning cash, we will be controlled like never before. This is the beginning of the end of freedom.

[deleted]

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#406

Post by manscrober » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:08 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #133

snovv_crash wrote: post #4

Meanwhile money laundering through slot machines, hairdressers, car washes and other low transaction value covers remain entirely unaffected.

what's your solution? ban hairdressers and car washes?

No good solution existing doesn't mean we should implement useless measures that restrict freedom. Assuming a similar percentage of car washes and hairdressers launder money( similar to how many >10k cash transactions are for money laundering) we could ban hairdressers and car washes from using cash all together. To fight corruption...

I think the problem we should fight, if any, is not the laundering. I simply can't imagine a good return on the investment in terms of fought-corruption vs permanently removed rights.

I also don't get the argument of "very few people it" against cash. Sure, the usage is low, but why would we then take away the right? To me this is like taking away the right to protest because 99% of people are almost never on the streets(made up statistic). Restrict people's bank accounts and see how quickly they will start using cash instead; I've seen this happen. Similarly, restrict people's rights and they will head for the streets.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#407

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:09 PM UTC

ilyt wrote: post #197

friend_and_foe wrote: post #167

First line in the article: > The EU continues its fight to protect EU citizens and the EU's financial system against money laundering and terrorist financing. The EU has control of the propaganda machine at levels comparable to the Soviet Union. We should've just let them have it. I wonder how many Europeans are going to get in this thread to tell us Americans how much more privacy they have.

Well, we do, if you don't like that fact complain to your government. "Oh look at those EUROPERANS with their fancy PRIVACY, real men get fucked unlubed by corporations and LIKE IT" doesn't help anyone here, the fight here is to make government do well by average citizen, not throwing insults at people that happen to be fucked differently by their government

[deleted]

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#408

Post by ssss11 » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

This approach of treating everyone like criminals is pervasive in current times. Look at all the cameras on the streets. The logging of all internet data. The CSAM crap on iPhones. Even security scanners in retail which have been around at least 20 years.

It’s the easy way out imo, instead of employing expensive labour to actually catch criminals, and somehow society has been convinced that it’s ok.

I do think it’s a gradient and not black and white. Retail security scanners - ok fine, cameras everywhere - why?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#409

Post by Teandw » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #363

CosmicShadow wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still not sure who buys a car that expensive with cash, seems sketchy, inconvenient and unsafe. I wouldn't take cash if someone wanted to pay me that much, in fact someone did, they paid me for a contract with $5000 in used 20s and it was really fucked up, I didn't know how to get it into a bank or use it for anything without setting off alarms.

Cash is king. If you are buying a non running classic car and have a tow vehicle and trailer ready you can drive a hard bargain in the moment. Suggesting laborious bureaucratic transactions over several days removes this common occurrence in that world, along with at many other gatherings of specialists - antiques, pedigree animals, whatever

"Cash is king. If you are buying a non running classic car and have a tow vehicle and trailer ready you can drive a hard bargain in the moment."

If I send a 10k payment to someone via bank transfer it's in their bank account in 10 seconds. Maybe you live in a country where there are much harsher restrictions?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#410

Post by bonzini » Sat, Dec 10, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #356

perlgeek wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't affect anyone. No one in Europe uses cash for anything more expensive than maybe 200 euros. Sold a used car just last year, got 2700€ in cash for it. Much easier than doing a bank transfer (which takes 1 day to arrive, if you're unlucky, and can be rolled back), or a paypal transfer (which can be undone) or anything else between to individuals. For b2c or b2b I agree, nobody pays that much in cash, but f…

I sure wouldn't want to risk discovering I'd been paid in high-quality counterfeit notes. Accepting 2700€ cash feels insane to me. In Europe do you not have cashier's checks? That's what we use in the US for something like a used car, since most people don't want to carry around a car's worth of cash, even for a short period of time. You go to the bank, and get a check drawn on the bank for the amount. The person rec…

We have money orders, they count basically the same as cash but they are exempt from this law. I saw three in my life. I was given one when I was paid my first salary and didn't have a bank account, and I requested one twice to buy a car in 2011 and 2014.