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I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

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Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#401

Post by debugnik »

cobertos wrote: post #327
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #40

I feel for the guy, making a living off of art is difficult. However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. > So…

What were those 25 staff doing though? It seemed like there was only actually 3 full time staff working on the game, or so the article mentions (Notch, Jeb, C418). I can't find any good sources about who was on the team at the time, but it seems like they were back office/customer support/community management/dev supporting roles? Which is super interesting! The most successful game dev of all time was only 20% actua…

The author talks about the team at the time of the 1.0 release, I think. Then Markus stopped working on Minecraft altogether while Mojang grew to support the game and explore new ventures.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#403

Post by croo »

bowsamic wrote: post #299
Karellen wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have no flaws?

Of course I do, but I don't expect people to excuse me of them or ignore them, just because I say them. The OP isn't expecting that, but other people in this thread are expecting it on his behalf. I don't even think the OP wants people to excuse his flaws, like people in this thread seem to want to insist on doing.

This is called "empathy".

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#404

Post by Jochim »

vkazanov wrote: post #378
Jochim wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did Mojang pay for though? That appears to be the point of contention. It sounds like Mojang threw £20k at the author without understanding or articulating what that payment entitled them to. At a later point they realised they didn't own the actual work itself and tried to strong-arm the author into giving them that ownership for effectively nothing. At the time Mojang appears to believe that this could be an i…

He payed, and the writer accepted. That's it. It is a reasonable amount of money for the kind of work that was completed. Both sides didn't clear up the legal side of things, yes, but it doesn't change the fact that both were OK with it until... until what? What did change? The writer wanted more... money? Recognition?

You haven't answered the question. That Mojang paid some money isn't disputed. What they paid for is the unknown.

> It is a reasonable amount of money for the kind of work that was completed.

Paying to use something isn't the same as paying to own it and from what we know use vs own wasn't clarified at the time.

> Both sides didn't clear up the legal side of things, yes, but it doesn't change the fact that both were OK with it until... until what?

What changed was Mojang trying to strong arm the author into giving them the copyright to the work for free, as part of a due diligence process in a billion dollar deal.

Copyright isn't automatically transferred in most places and it doesn't sound like the author typically agrees to anything other than a license. Mojang failed take action to obtain the copyright until it became obvious that it could hold up their billion dollar acquisition. Mojang then attempted to pressure the author into signing over the copyright for free.

The author clearly believes he granted a license. Mojang seem to have unilaterally decided post-facto that they had purchased the copyright to the work. Mojang's interpretation would be incorrect without prior agreement.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#406

Post by krisoft »

ekianjo wrote: post #255
asperous wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he actually received $20,000 that still seems like a lot? Especially in a world where freelance writing is $0.01-$0.50 (pre-GPT3). And it sounds like at the time it was good money for the artist. I get that he feels like he was given a small amount relative to the great success of Minecraft, but I would hope he also realizes that it was risk free cash.

reminds me recently of voice actors who think they are entitled for a bigger piece of the piece just because the game they worked on for a few hours had financial success. Hubris and pretentiousness at its best.

They are free to negotiate as they are pleased. If the producer feels that they can find a cheaper acceptable alternative they will go with that. If they feel what the voice actor is offering is needed they need to pay for it.

> the game they worked on for a few hours

Voice acting is a hard job, and it takes more time than a “few hours” to get good at it. If you think anyone can do it certainly you can just pay an anybody to do it.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#407

Post by DonHopkins »

Years ago when Minecraft was new, I used to really respect and admire and root for Markus Persson because of his work, but then he opened his mouth, showed the world who he really was, lost all my respect, and totally disgusted me.

It would have been so easy for him to just keep his big mouth shut, count and spend all his money, and retain all the hard earned respect and admiration that so many people including myself had for him, but then we would have been delusionally admiring a truly terrible Q-Anon supporting, GamerGate promoting, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, racist bigot, who called video game developer and feminism supporter Zoë Quinn a "cunt".

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." – Maya Angelou

Oh course he tried to walk back some of his worst tweets, but what kind of person tweets that kind of shit in the first place? I believe what he showed about himself the first time, not his pathetic attempt at damage control.

So I guess it's better that we all now know what kind of a horrible person Notch really is thanks to his own words, so we're not wasting our money, energy, and respect on somebody who certainly doesn't deserve it. Let him serve as an anti-hero for exposing other bigots who choose to carry his water and show everyone who they really are by defending him.

I'd much rather spend my money and admiration on wholesome deservingly beloved game developers like Tarn and Zach Adams, who've worked so hard and creatively on Dwarf Fortress, and are decent human beings who totally deserve to reap the benefits of their fine dedicated work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarn_Adams

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson#Controversial_v...

Markus Persson: Controversial views

Persson has received criticism for political and social opinions he has expressed on social media since around 2017. Many of his comments have seen by others as misogynistic, racist, and homophobic.[52] He claimed feminism was a "social disease", and called video game developer and feminism supporter Zoë Quinn a "cunt".[53][54] He took offence to gay pride celebrations, asserting there should be heterosexual pride days and stating that opponents to his ideas "deserve to be shot".[54][55] After facing backlash, he deleted the tweets and rescinded his statements, writing "So yeah, it's about pride of daring to express, not about pride of being who you are. I get it now."[56] Persson said in social media that "It's okay to be white"[57] and that he believed privilege is a "made up metric".[58] He has promoted claims that people are fined for "using the wrong pronoun".[52] Persson has also faced criticism for tweeting in support of QAnon, stating that "Q is legit. Don't trust the media."[59]

In March 2019, a Minecraft update removed all mentions of Persson from the game's menu, though his name is still in the credits.[60] Microsoft did not explain this action, but its timing led multiple news outlets to conclude it was related to the controversies associated with him.[60][61] Persson was not invited to the game's tenth anniversary event later in 2019, with Microsoft saying that his views "do not reflect those of Microsoft or Mojang".[52][62]

[52] "Minecraft creator Notch unwelcome at 10th anniversary due to online conduct". Ars Technica. 29 April 2019. Retrieved 6 November 2022.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/04/online-conduct-leaves...

[53] Bonazzo, John (13 June 2017). "Minecraft Creator Tells Women on Twitter 'Act Like a Cunt, Get Called a Cunt'". Observer. Archived from the original on 19 August 2019. Retrieved 18 June 2019.

https://observer.com/2017/06/minecraft-gamergate-markus-pers...

[54] Kane, Vivian (29 April 2019). "Minecraft's Creator Excluded From the Game's 10th Anniversary Due to Racist, Sexist, Transphobic Comments". The Mary Sue. Archived from the original on 16 May 2019. Retrieved 18 June 2019.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190516071226/https://www.thema...

[55] "Minecraft creator Notch unwelcome at 10th anniversary due to online conduct". Ars Technica. 29 April 2019. Retrieved 9 April 2022.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/04/online-conduct-leaves...

[56] Morris, David Z. (2 July 2017). "Minecraft Creator Sparks Cries of Homophobia". Fortune. Time Inc. Archived from the original on 3 December 2017. Retrieved 3 December 2017.

http://fortune.com/2017/07/02/minecraft-markus-persson-homop...

[57] Crecente, Brian (29 April 2019). "'Minecraft' Creator Excluded From Anniversary Due to 'Comments and Opinions' (Exclusive)". Variety. Archived from the original on 17 June 2020. Retrieved 25 July 2019.

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/minecraft-creator-exclu...

[58] "The Creator of 'Minecraft' Tweeted Some Dumb Stuff About Race". GQ. Archived from the original on 25 July 2019. Retrieved 25 July 2019.

https://www.gq.com/story/notch-whiteness-tweets

[59] "From Q-Anon to transphobia, the creator of 'Minecraft' has takes". Newsweek. 11 March 2019. Retrieved 17 June 2022.

https://www.newsweek.com/minecraft-notch-controversy-twitter...

[60] Thubron, Rob (28 March 2019). "Microsoft removes references to game creator Notch in latest Minecraft update". TechSpot. Archived from the original on 4 February 2020. Retrieved 31 March 2020.

https://www.techspot.com/news/79403-microsoft-removes-refere...

[61] Lanier, Liz (28 March 2019). "Some References to 'Minecraft' Creator Notch Removed From Game". Variety. Archived from the original on 7 June 2020. Retrieved 31 March 2020.

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/notch-removed-minecraft...

[62] Arif, Shabana (29 April 2019). "Minecraft creator Notch won't be included in the game's 10 year anniversary event". VG247. Archived from the original on 29 April 2019. Retrieved 29 April 2019.

https://www.vg247.com/2019/04/29/minecraft-creator-notch-abs...

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#408

Post by BlueTemplar »

cobertos wrote: post #327
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #40

I feel for the guy, making a living off of art is difficult. However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. > So…

What were those 25 staff doing though? It seemed like there was only actually 3 full time staff working on the game, or so the article mentions (Notch, Jeb, C418). I can't find any good sources about who was on the team at the time, but it seems like they were back office/customer support/community management/dev supporting roles? Which is super interesting! The most successful game dev of all time was only 20% actua…

That was long after the release of the game though...

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#409

Post by jameshart »

tremon wrote: post #369
Gigachad wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah looking at the contract, it seems exactly like the kind of thing you’d want to have for content in a game. It removes all complexities as you may need to edit or do whatever to it years later. Imagine if all the developers expected to both be paid to write code and still own the rights to the code.

Most freelance developers do? This is a work-for-hire situation, not an employment type situation. Works for hire have a different legal basis than works created as an employee.

Not a lawyer, but… I don’t believe that’s true. As I understand it ‘work for hire’ is the basis by which work done by an employee creates intellectual property belonging to an employer. When you contract a non employee to produce intellectual property for you it is common to write an explicit ‘work for hire’ agreement that ensures that the work you are paying for is handled on the same basis as work by an employee.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#410

Post by moffkalast »

s3000 wrote: post #289
mcv wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mojang subsequently wanted to purchase that copyright and hence why they sent the contract for £1 to be signed. That is the move by Mojang that I didn't understand. They were about to be paid 2.5 billion. Why not offer 1 million for the signed contract? They could easily afford that, and with his financial troubles at the time, Julian would probably have signed it. And he'd have missed out on his subsequent persona…

There was something similar with the soundtrack of Doom Eternal [1]. They were also about to get paid billions by Microsoft and didn't pay the composer. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33532078

Wow. Just wow. I would say that's godawful but it would be a gross understatement.

Given the blatantly deliberate blocking to get the OST done and getting a moron to ghostwrite it makes me think id deliberately decided to ruin Mick's reputation so the fans would eat him alive and then they went for straight up libel to complete it. Marty Stratton, what a complete piece of shit.

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