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India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official CCP stance is that China is democratic. Here's the literal party line: Democracy is a common value of humanity and an ideal that has always been cherished by the Communist Party of China and the Chinese people. http://www.news.cn/english/2021-12/05/c_1310352606.htm

Yes, that’s what Xi says in my link as well, but most westerners do not consider single party democracy to be legitimate.

Ya, so they just need to add another party to be considered as such

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#402
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its amazing. and unfortunately they will be the last generation that will be able to do it. just like for western countries everything will become unaffordable and the middle class wont be able to buy houses

Unlikely because there's basically no NIMBY-ism in India. Any developer can just acquire land, some air rights and plop up apartment complexes. And unlike in the US, apartments in India are designed for family life and aren't just for young / unmarried folks.

This was all true in US at some point.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#403
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the commodities boom is any indicator, Brazil should be hitting a purple patch soon enough.

What's a purple patch?

Hmm I thought this was a common enough expression, but apparently its largely limited to Indian English.

A “purple patch” is a period of exceptional performance. Like an athlete being “in the zone”.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#404
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of reasons to think the PRC is about to hit a very rough patch as globalism shrinks.

Shrinking globalism has a lot of causes so I don't want to overstate the case here, but one big part of the drive to pull back from it is the PRC's own currency manipulation and leveraging of its manufacturing bottleneck for geostrategic aims. They have themselves to blame partly. But really, their demographic precipice is what's going to stall them out. I hope their political system is functional enough to let it tr…

I would say one of the reason for globalism to retreat is the west (especially US) find itself in a awkward situation: developing world and developed world has to meet somewhere in the middle, which means, the living standard in developed world has to drop.

For developing world to develop, you will have to go the extra miles, you are competing with big guys, trying to make a space for yourself in a crowded room. Every country does currency manipulation, imaging you make your good cheaper to get some papers, only because the paper can be used to buy energy.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#405
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now India is in a transition period and wages for these kinds of jobs are keeping pace with gains in productivity and that's how you're seeing so many lifting themselves are their families out of poverty. However, if history is anything to go by that will stop pretty soon as the hyper upper class solidifies their hold on wealth, appreciating assets, and means of production, and will start to keep larger and lar…

I'm not sure what the "free market" has to do with it. Capitalism, communism, feudalism, socialism, etc.. always end with the majority of money and power concentrated with the few. It's just human behavior to be selfish.

Oh absolutely agree, everything up until now has eventually descended into the age old pattern of power and money finding it's way concentrated into the hands of the few elite, however capitalism with it's private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit, and rewarding accumulation of capital, seems like it's designed from the ground up to funnel money and power into the hands of the few, where at at least in theory communism/socialism/other -isms are designed to try to share the wealth.

Of course, said -isms require either an unbroken chain of morally righteous people with absolute power being in charge of said means of production fairly for the equal enrichment of everyone, or some kind of system of checks and balances to keep those in power from abusing it and preventing corruption from outside the political power structures, the exact formula of which we've yet to figure out.

Personally I'm of the opinion we should just throw the baby out with the bathwater and chalk this whole civilization experiment up as a mistake and go back to tribal societies of yestermillennia. Of course, the vast majority of the current human population disagrees with me in that regard and I will admit there are some good things about it, so until that changes I'll be here plugging along like the rest and hoping for better days.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#406
post #289

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Discussions about poverty is usually confused by the two competing definitions: - Absolute Poverty: If you have less than $X/day, you are poor. This measures living standards. - Relative Poverty: If you're in the bottom x%, you are poor. This measures status. Without knowing anything, it sounds like this measurement is more on the Relative Poverty side.

I don't understand how relative poverty can improve.

less inequality?

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#407
post #106

One of the best things about living in India is watching families move from lower or lower-middle class to middle-class status. Usually, all it takes is someone from the family landing a white-collar job. While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

Not everything is rosy though. In cities like Bangalore, real estate is super expensive, thanks to software salaries. The same is happening in second, third tier cities now. But generally speaking, yes, all it takes is one person from a family landing a white collar job. And life becomes (relatively) much better

Real estate is not super expensive in Bangalore - It is expensive in Mumbai though

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be relative to that nation. From my experience the UK IS becoming an incredibly segregated nation along economic lines. I don't find it hard to believe that 22% of the populace are in relative poverty. This is very different from absolute poverty, of which I'm sure India has a higher percentage.

Three cheers for Brexit and Tory rule I suppose.

I don't know why you're being downvoted. UK has been under Tory rule for most of the last few decades. Its hard to see why they shouldn't be held responsible for UK's fortunes

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#409
post #142

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Real estate will get more expensive due to political greed than any other kind of development. The supply of real estate is artificially constrained by the political class, so any kind of development (say hypothetically manufacturing instead of software) will make it expensive. There used to be a time when new land for building houses was frequently sold by the government in the form of new "colonies", but that has c…

What you are describing is one part of the problem. I have friends who earn in dollars. They can easily afford to buy a couple of apartments every year. They do this and let those apartments sit vacant for a few years, waiting for them to appreciate. When many people start doing this, it artificially inflates the prices.

It doesn't work that well in practice. While real estate is overinflated for buying, rental yields reflect the market. They are under 2-4% of the property value in most places.

India is also expanding vertically in cities so new housing is often built in different area and older infrastructure is not maintained in the long run.

A significant portion of real estate is built on under the table money. You often pay 30-50% of the value in black money.

So, real estate is a very illiquid investment unless commercial in India.

There are also cultural reasons for artificially inflating real estate and Indian property developers are under huge loans similar to China. It won't be sustainable.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they essentially exported their poverty to the first world.

Poverty in the first world isn’t real poverty.

Some 3 million Australians and 10+ million in the US went hungry at least once over last year. You sure can be worse than that, but that's pretty bad already.
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