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Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

justice.gov

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Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#401

Post by bluGill »

jameshart wrote: post #391
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>About 10 years ago, a law was introduced forbidding scrap metal dealers from paying cash, and requiring them to check ID. That led to a 30% drop in theft. My ass it did. I've worked in the metal recycling industry. Getting payment in some form other than cash doesn't deter people who were already willing to commit a crime. They have a buddy scrap it and the buddy takes a cut for taking on the risk. Yards don't want…

I’m not sure I understand why you think this reduction can’t be attributed to the law? I think you might have a point that this law may have also deterred 30% of legitimate copper scrap transactions, if basically it made scrap dealers decide not to bother with copper at all…

They deal with copper, just not copper that obviously is rail. Bring in some old plumbing parts no problem. The only people scrapping railroad parts are being paid by the railroad.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#402

Post by Fatnino »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #176
catiopatio wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It basically mandates KYC (Know Your Customer) procedures for companies that buy or sell catalytic converters, and it makes buying or selling a catalytic converter without documentation that it was obtained legally a crime. This is worse than the original problem. When did we become so comfortable with the government mandating presentation of papers and tracking of private transactions? Effective, privacy-preservin…

Ever been to a pawn shop? Everything in a legit operation runs through this process. >> The choice is between law enforcement actually doing their job, or invasive and ineffectual laws like this. I'm on guard for overreah all the time, but I'm OK with showing ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, fly on a plane, sell items that should rarely be done in bulk outside of rare conditions, like a bunch of catalytic converters.

Regarding ID for flying...

I took a flight today. I had to show my ID once at the start of the security line where they did NOT check my boarding pass.

Then at the gate they only wanted to see my boarding pass and not my ID.

So basically nobody actually cares about ID when flying. It would have been trivial to buy the ticket in a false name or "borrow" someone else's name without asking.

To be clear, this failing is all on the gate procedure. If security wanted to check boarding pass or if they have to hooked up on the computer there, a simple bypass would be to buy a cheap ticket in your real name and the ticket you intend to fly in some other name.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#403

Post by bluGill »

giantg2 wrote: post #203
socialismisok wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't ever buy art, I guess.

Haven't there been major scandals in the appraisal and verification, as well as art still being stolen and successfully sold in black markets? I'm hoping a law helps, but I won't hold my breath.

What helps with art is people with art want to show it off. Steal some art and you risk showing it off to someone who knows who it belongs to.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#404

Post by bombcar »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #379
alar44 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real life isn't a detective show. Cops don't task resources with hunting down your stolen TV. At best, you may get it back when someone tries to sell it to a pawn shop.

More like you get it back when the drug dealer who's thieving client trades it to him in lieu of cash gets busted and the cops comb his apartment looking for anything else they can charge him with and check the serial vs their list.

There’s really only three reasons (or four) to report theft:

1. It’s serialized and you want it on the recovery lists

2. You need the report for an insurance claim

3. You want to be counted in statistics used to determine policing levels

4. The item could be used in a crime and you want to be cleared (think stolen car, stolen gun)

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#405

Post by bombcar »

bmj wrote: post #387
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Every yard told me that they aren't allowed to deal in used exhaust systems. This is a long standing emissions law thing that predates theft issues. They want people to drop big coin on something (be that an exhaust system or a vehicle financed at a borderline usury rate from the local BHPH lot) that will be in compliance for awhile rather than slap a used cat on that will barely pass the test and go out of complian…

In my state, which has an annual emissions inspection, I have yet to meet a non-dealer mechanic who will not do everything possible to get a vehicle with a bad cat through the inspection process.

CA added new machines to testing that report every test to try to slow this down but every mechanic knows where to find the old machines that can run tests without reporting.

They just want to get you on the road and they’re damn good about it (and to be fair much of what they do to pass actually fixes real issues - i went from being a gross polluter to passing when the mechanic replaced the spark plug wire that was grounding out).

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#406

Post by mbg721 »

WalterBright wrote: post #352
skeeter2020 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever been to a pawn shop? Everything in a legit operation runs through this process. >> The choice is between law enforcement actually doing their job, or invasive and ineffectual laws like this. I'm on guard for overreah all the time, but I'm OK with showing ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, fly on a plane, sell items that should rarely be done in bulk outside of rare conditions, like a bunch of catalytic converters.

In Washington State, there's a new law where I not only have to show ID to buy booze, I have to have my ID scanned. So now, the government keeps track of what and how much booze I buy. Ugh. This is beyond stupid, as people stopped thinking I might be under 21 back when the buffalo roamed.

I asked a checkout worker about this once (in Ohio), and they claimed they were made to do it so that the state could pressure people with expired drivers' licenses to renew them. (This was right about when they were ending COVID-related extensions on the expiration dates.) I don't agree with using liquor age laws for that either, but I think if the state wanted invasive personal data, they'd just ask Kroger for it.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#407

Post by csomar »

vinay427 wrote: post #364
WalterBright wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Washington State, there's a new law where I not only have to show ID to buy booze, I have to have my ID scanned. So now, the government keeps track of what and how much booze I buy. Ugh. This is beyond stupid, as people stopped thinking I might be under 21 back when the buffalo roamed.

Is this a law that mandates scanning of IDs for authenticity purposes or storing that data? The few other states I could easily find online that had a similar law typically require that retailers either don’t store the data or that they delete it within X days.

The shop might store the data or misuse it. This is already a solved problem. A privately signed identity that can be verified without transferring any of the data using a device the government provides.

But I already said government too much. This is all non-senses. Transactions should not be monitored.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#408

Post by csomar »

WalterBright wrote: post #352
skeeter2020 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever been to a pawn shop? Everything in a legit operation runs through this process. >> The choice is between law enforcement actually doing their job, or invasive and ineffectual laws like this. I'm on guard for overreah all the time, but I'm OK with showing ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, fly on a plane, sell items that should rarely be done in bulk outside of rare conditions, like a bunch of catalytic converters.

In Washington State, there's a new law where I not only have to show ID to buy booze, I have to have my ID scanned. So now, the government keeps track of what and how much booze I buy. Ugh. This is beyond stupid, as people stopped thinking I might be under 21 back when the buffalo roamed.

Pretty soon all transactions will involve KYC, not just monetary ones.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#409

Post by bluGill »

joelcollinsdc wrote: post #269
bhawks wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the main selling point was scrapping the catalytic converter for the platinum and palladium inside. In that model a ID system for the catalytic converter itself isn't going to put to much friction on illicit activity.

It’s not like you can just crack it open and the expensive metal falls out though. It’s an industrial process.

It isn't hard to melt those metals out. I used melt aluminum in my backyard, and the forums for that had discussions on other metals. While a backyard process is not going to recover all the metal, it is still going to get plenty.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#410

Post by bluGill »

mieko wrote: post #307
kelnos wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think serial numbers would help in this case, as the converters are stolen, precious metals extracted, and then those metals are sold. The bit that would likely be stamped with a serial number is likely discarded.

Yeah: Literally make it illegal for shops to possess the platinum or palladium without documentation of provenance. Unless you're cool with the thefts that are going on, or think any government regulation is "overstepping."

You can process those metals in your backyard with a bag of charcoal. Sure industrial processes will extract more, but the backyard processes work.
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