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Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

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401–410 of 734 posts

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#401
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate the dependency of all modern economy on semiconductor industry. I honestly think there is 100% chance that if China invaded Taiwan today, the US would declare war and send troops to defend Taiwan. In contrast, I think there is >0% chance that the US would not declare war on Russia if they did a (tactical) nuclear attack in Ukraine.

But you underestimate our ability to downsize, turn around and build them locally on a 5-year horizon, and our ability to backtrack tensions anyway if we re reaching a nuclear point. We will give Ukraine to Russia if we can save Paris.

> We will give Ukraine to Russia if we can save Paris.

Only that you just taught the already aggressive ruling elite of a huge country with an abundance of resources who don't care about anyone including their own except that they need them for work and for the fighting that threatening use of nukes gets them anything they want. Moldova next - it's not EU or NATO, already very low risk for Russia, if they can get there. Which was (is) a stated goal for the current war, to get the entire south of Ukraine to take away their sea ports and to get to Moldova.

They'll try the Baltic states next. Not a full invasion, just lots of little aggressive actions. Even previously they did murders in the EU, financing of radical parties out to undermine current EU country governments, supported by propaganda. I don't know how much it actually influenced US elections, but I think it's save to say they at least tried.

Giving them Ukraine will be massive. They will also have lots more of the oil and gas reserves under Ukraine and around the Krim. They will also get tens of millions of new citizens, lessening the problems of a shrinking number of people available inside Russia significantly. There also are significant parts of former USSR production in Ukraine, which will all go to Russia. They will also own even more of the prime agricultural lands of Eastern Europe, which at least so far seems to suffer less than Western Europe (look at the heat maps of this summer) under climate change so it may become even more valuable than it already is. The land is some prime real estate - unlike Siberia, Ukraine is much better, you can't look at the map and think "it does not add all that much to Russia" because the value of Ukraine lands is much higher.

I have no idea how you get this idea. Giving up Ukraine is really, really massive in its long term consequences, greatly strengthening Russia directly as well as showing them that the means they use actually work. This would be a gigantic loss for the West.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of human existence tech is overwhelmingly above the average person need. It's not providing anything beside more addictive paths. You don't need more resolution, more bandwidth, more anything.. you probably need less, or more space to reflect and live outside the networked digital realm. ps: to add a bit more, from the few chats I have, people are either saying "well I need that to check my bank account or p…

> You don't need more resolution, more bandwidth, more anything.. you probably need less, or more space to reflect and live outside the networked digital realm. Better tech is how humans (all of them - rather than the few) get more space to reflect and live outside.

As always, it is a question of degree. A young adult in the 70s had plenty of time to reflect and live outside. The technology of the preceding 50 years has not made this more accessible. If anything, the slot-machine nature of our computing reduces the likelihood of it.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#403
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're different countries with entirely different relationships to the PRC.

"On entire other sides of the globe" is a pretty strong statement. Japan is a vassal state of the US and Taiwan's independence from China relies wholly on US support. Chinese citizens (at least the ones I questioned) have no love for Japanese. There are even talks of a Pacific NATO between Vietnam, Korea, Japan, and the Phillipines, with Taiwan being the clear Ukraine parallel. South Korea is probably politically lik…

Japan is not a vassal state. It's a powerful country that's an ally of the US.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#404
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as "peak tech". There are simply alternating periods of faster and slower growth, and we are currently in the latter.

In terms of human existence tech is overwhelmingly above the average person need. It's not providing anything beside more addictive paths. You don't need more resolution, more bandwidth, more anything.. you probably need less, or more space to reflect and live outside the networked digital realm. ps: to add a bit more, from the few chats I have, people are either saying "well I need that to check my bank account or p…

> In terms of human existence tech is overwhelmingly above the average person need.

People have been saying this about technology for as long as technology has existed.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#405
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they aren't. There's not a single point in time when I have ever scanned my own groceries faster than the guy who does it 8 hours a day. They scream at me when they think I'm stealing (Any human being doing that would instantly be reprimanded by a manager), they have tiny platforms where I can't even fit my groceries and heaven forbid if I do something the machine doesn't like, an attendant needs to come unfuck i…

> I can't wait for the next grocery innovation of having the customers stock the shelves from the backroom before they can fill a sack with onions. Think bolder. As a software engineer in the Soviet Union I had to spend about three weeks each year in the collective farm fields planting, tending and harvesting potatoes and cabbages. Since some of my American friends are very fond of socialism these days - these types…

If you add bluetooth or lora I think you got the future right.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China attempts an invasion on Taiwan it is not unrealistic to suggest they’ll also take a swing at Japan and at least try to destroy the fabs there.

It is completely unrealistic. Japan is protected by the USA. Any attacks on Japanese territory would lead to nuclear annihilation of Beijing.

This sounds like what was being said about Taiwan a few years ago.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voters in democracy tend to react better when debt or "others" are seen to be paying for things and not them... I can assure you that if the everyday American saw in line item on their paycheck called "Ukraine War Tax" the public would be much less supportive, but since all the money is either printed, to debt then there is a disconnect between government spending, and the hidden tax of inflation everyone is paying b…

Don't worry. Politicians will be sending out mailers and running ads that put that "Ukraine War Tax" front and center into peoples' minds. Support for Ukraine is substantially higher on the left and is falling on the right as people begin blaming the war for rising fuel prices in the USA. Republicans want the Presidency in 2024, and turning their base against Ukraine is going to be a pillar of their strategy.

People should be blaming decades of both Republican and Democrat spending policies, and a fed focused more on political goals than on solid classic economics which resulted in a over heated stock, and housing market that was never allowed to properly cool even after the market signaled several times there are systemic issues... Instead both the government and the fed just poured on the gas instead of putting water on the fire.

The War is just the needle that is contributing to the massive bubble popping

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#408
post #188

To be perfectly honest, this is still within a 1000km radius circle that encompasses Taiwan, South Korea and Japan. That covers the majority of next-generation fabs that aren't Intel. It's great to legally diversify these fabs, but it does very little to mitigate geopolitical issues that are brewing in and around the east china sea.

How does it do little to diversify these fabs? The current situation is that if China invades Taiwan, the entire Western world is compelled to engage militarily over Taiwan's high end chip fabs. It cannot be overstated how much we depend on that, if TSMC operates in other countries, we don't HAVE to engage in WW3.

No just no

Our dedication to protect our ally Taiwan has nothing to do with Silicone and neither does China's nationalist obsession over it. If it comes to war, chips will play no role

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#409
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Taiwan is taken off the board for semiconductors, or if all semiconductors have to go through China, that means the entire US military (and all western militaries) are dependent on a geopolitical rival. To allow that would be nothing short of giving away the game.

There are advanced Fabs in Israel, Intel and TSMC are both building next gen Fabs in Arizona. It's not like Twain is the only place with advanced chip fabs(though yes the vast majority of the capacity is there and IIRC thats where their latest process nodes are but I don't think the military is dependent on those absolute cutting edge process nodes)

Those fabs won't start producing for years.

Re: Intel and the $1.5T chip industry meltdown

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Tbh its constantly surprising why Americans view the CCPs zero-covid policy as a failure. Even the most pessimistic reports (based on actual facts, not tabloid-driven wishful thinking) acknowledges that China has avoided at least 2 million+ deaths through their zero covid policy. Is the right to life no longer a human right? Or have a lot of us so internalized anti-China propaganda that we're no longer able…

I could make the same baseless argument that many people also died due to the over restrictive policies and draconian imprisonment tactics. Of course 0-covid is only possible if it is maintained forever, because like it or not the rest of the world still has covid.

I'm not sure it's the best approach, but I would figure they would wait until circulating Covid strains were acceptably less harmful and then reopen.
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