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It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

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Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#401

Post by Aeolun »

ckemere wrote: post #94

It's apparently a minority voice opinion here on HN, but I for one appreciate what Microsoft is trying to do. As a parent of a 6 and 9 year old who have really gotten into Minecraft during COVID, I appreciate them basically deciding "We want Minecraft to be a game for kids and an online community that is nice." I get why people are frustrated, but I also like the idea of a global decision that forces servers open to…

If I set up a server I should be allowed to disable any form of MS moderation.

By all means, set up a kind of method where public servers that are child safe/friendly (e.g. opt in to MS moderation) are advertised as such. But do not mess with my stuff without my permission.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#402

Post by oynqr »

probably_wrong wrote: post #342
oynqr wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never destroyed a sand castle? Toppled a Jenga tower? Destruction is fun.

Destroying my own sand castle and enjoying it is fun. Destroying someone else's castle and enjoying it is called "being a psychopath".

Quite the low bar for declaring someone a psychopath.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#403

Post by klabb3 »

ninth_ant wrote: post #14
8jy89hui wrote: post #2

Does anyone have any insight into why Microsoft thought this was necessary? Minecraft has been server-moderated for years now and has been wildly successful. I've never heard of any hate groups or even hateful servers (I'm sure they exist, but they don't make the news in a way that would harm Microsoft). Is there some legislation that would make it a liability for Microsoft to not moderate all the chat? This move jus…

You may underestimate how truly horrific some of the online communications are in any non-trivial service. Especially when kids are involved. Having been exposed to some of the stuff going on at other companies communication systems, I have total sympathy for mojang wanting some people off of all their platforms, forever. Most any system is built like this from the ground up, it’s rather surprising it took them this…

> Having been exposed to some of the stuff going on at other companies communication systems, I have total sympathy for mojang wanting some people off of all their platforms, forever.

Be my damn guest, as long as it's operated by Microsoft (their public vetted list of servers, realms and so on). However, Minecraft has a jar server that you can download and run yourself, which Microsoft has no business interfering with. If I want to i can setup a "Minecraft against humanity" server and invite my friends, nobody should give two shits. Just monitoring speech at all on a private server makes no sense, and should 100% be opt in.

More generally, the solution to moderation is often private or semi-private groups. There's no one size fits all moderation rules, so as far as possible let people moderate their own spaces. Otherwise you're just renting you speech permissions from a corporation.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#404

Post by oynqr »

LadyCailin wrote: post #399
oynqr wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never destroyed a sand castle? Toppled a Jenga tower? Destruction is fun.

If somebody is building a sandcastle on the beach, and you go step on it for fun, you’re just a raging asshole, not cute and clever.

I agree. While they are building it, destroying it would be a dick move. Once they are done with it and not around, it's fair game.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#405

Post by Aeolun »

RUN12 wrote: post #229
causalmodels wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name a single moderation system that operates on this scale that will not automatically ban someone for getting mass reported? This is a fairly well known phenomenon.

That's obviously not what's happening here though. I have plenty of adult friends who go on public and private servers and actively trash talk during games and have never been banned. And none of their friends have been banned. A small group of 10 year-old children aren't having a coordinated attack of hundreds to thousands of reports against them repeatedly over many months. Not to mention tacking on the requirement…

> A small group of 10 year-old children aren't having a coordinated attack of hundreds to thousands of reports against them repeatedly over many months.

You know they are likely playing with a large group of other 10 year old children right? There’s going to be at least a few amongst them that just think it’s fun to mass report everyone that says anything marginally inappropriate.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#406

Post by Aeolun »

RUN12 wrote: post #235
curiousgal wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what kids say when they don’t want to own up to the consequences of their actions. Oof. They're kids. Cursing here and there is not the end of the world.

Minecraft does not ban users for profanity. The list of ban offenses is currently: Hate speech, sexual content and soliciting improper contact, real life threats, exposing the personal information of others, posting links to malicious software, impersonating staff, cheating/exploits (this includes anything that would negatively affect another person’s gameplay experience), general commercial spamming Profanity is con…

> impersonating staff

If my own experience years ago is any indication, this would create so many ban options it’s not funny. 10 year olds love pretending to be more than they are.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#407

Post by Aeolun »

xdrosenheim wrote: post #290
ckemere wrote: post #94

It's apparently a minority voice opinion here on HN, but I for one appreciate what Microsoft is trying to do. As a parent of a 6 and 9 year old who have really gotten into Minecraft during COVID, I appreciate them basically deciding "We want Minecraft to be a game for kids and an online community that is nice." I get why people are frustrated, but I also like the idea of a global decision that forces servers open to…

You should not let you children play with random 30 year olds, if you do not want them to see/hear profanity. You have the option to install your own chat moderation tools, client-sided, there is not need to force every to "be nice" just because there _might_ be children playing. If this was just for their own Realm Servers, that would be fine, it is their server, they host it. But why does Microsoft suddenly feel th…

> You should not let you children play with random 30 year olds, if you do not want them to see/hear profanity.

Kind of a losing battle anyway. Not quite sure why we care about profanity at 10 years old when we do not care about the same profanity from the same person 10 years later.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#408

Post by asddubs »

will_bl wrote: post #307
ouid wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to use profanity wherever the fuck I want. Especially on a fucking videogame. You are not entitled to have the rest of the world stop saying fuck because you don't want your child to hear it. Moreover, Microsoft doesn't have the right to impose this restriction on the "license" I purchased from a different company a billion fucking years ago. Malleable licenses shouldn't exist. We need real consumer protect…

> I'm going to use profanity wherever the fuck I want. Okay. Enjoy. Mojang's policies don't ban for that.

It is listed in their policies

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#409

Post by capitainenemo »

ajvs wrote: post #313
kragen wrote: post #41

Minetest is probably the best Minecraft alternative; it's free and open source software, which avoids the danger associated with centralized retaliation systems like the one Microsoft is operating. Also, it's easier to write mods for, partly because mods are written in Lua, and you don't have to install mods on the client, just the server. https://www.minetest.net/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Fyav6FiIs The vide…

I prefer open-source Veloren instead since it's built in Rust, has far better performance and functionality, and has a more RPG-like focus similar to Cube World. https://veloren.net/

I do love veloren, but regrettably they have no interest at present, in the building aspects of the game. There is only extremely limited block copy and paste if an admin.

It's not going to replace something like Minecraft+Create any time soon.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#410

Post by pbhjpbhj »

caslon wrote: post #105
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people bought the game before these draconian policies were implemented? They should offer refunds.

That's not the deal with proprietary software. The deal is that you buy a license to software, the terms of which can be altered at any time. It's fundamental to the model of proprietary software. It's not theirs. It's the company's, and the company can do what they want with it. There's no reason refunds should be offered, as the consumers got what they paid for: A license to software, with certain conditions for te…

>The deal is that you buy a license to software, the terms of which can be altered at any time. //

Bollocks it is. The deal is you buy the software, it says "for sale" or "buy $app" [0]. I will never give my informed consent for unilateral pushing of changes to software I purchase.

Under UK law pushing a change without informed consent would appear to be unauthorised access under the Computer Misuse Act, and if features are changed is a reason for a refund under the Consumer Rights Act.

If the ice-cream melts because a company broke into your home and turns off your freezer then damn straight you should get a refund (Consumer Rights Act) and they should be criminally punished for B&E (Computer Misuse Act).

[0] https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/store/minecraft-java-bedrock... "buy Minecraft"

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